Harry and Gabor

[laurwalsh]

My friend just sent me this. I adore Gabor mate and the work he does. His book 'in the realms of hungry ghosts' was life changing for me who had suffered serious addiction issues. But am I being too harsh to feel disappointed he's jumping on this band wagon of garbage. I'm sorry but Harry we're sick of listening to your trauma and no offence you've sung it to death, (and I don't even think it's that bad relative to how much he has gone on and on about it) and trauma aside you're a complete hypocrite with how you've treated you're family and the trauma you've put them through!!

Harry's quest for "privacy" seems to be failing doesn't it !

Whoring himself out at every possible opportunity

Agree.

Sounds like he is ‘stuck’ in rumination.

It’s also interesting that he believes him talking out is a ‘service to others’ - again more delusion and grandiosity …. if he thinks others see his words and behaviours as ‘healed’ or aspirational.

I am stuck by the over affection with his children - it seems quite ‘engulfing’, emotionally clumsy and inadvertently meeting PH own needs rather than being attuned to sensitivity respond to each child’s unique needs moment to moment.

(As an aside, I think going overboard with emotional affection comes through with Meghan too, in how she acts a bit overboard with crowds - people can feel it’s not quite genuine, a bit OTT, and it’s a point she gets compared to Kate on - Kate is a bit more restrained but doesn’t love bomb crowds, and people can feel she’s more authentic).

You can only say this part if you have a bias regarding K&M and know nothing about MM before marriage. There are direct accounts and footage of MM talking to random fans (not crowds) and she is very warm and asks them a few questions about themselves. Is that what you think is a 'love bombing' ?

I would put it to you that KM may not come across as 'authentic' as you think in her stand offish manner. After all the Royal Walkabout is not like a political walkabout where people will throw questions to the candidate and try to figure out how they will be as leaders. The RF walkabout it about elevated individuals who go and bless the unwashed with their presence. Considering that KM is not even born to it, don't see how you cannot see her coldness as anything but manufactured.

In that case if you will tell me KM is naturally cold, then surely you should tell me MM is naturally warm.

I am stuck by the over affection with his children - it seems quite ‘engulfing’, emotionally clumsy and inadvertently meeting PH own needs rather than being attuned to sensitivity respond to each child’s unique needs moment to moment.

Most likely meeting both needs.
It's been proven over and over that children respond well to affection. They are also good at shutting down 'over chirpy' parents. I'm sure A & L are doing just fine without your faux concern.

It’s quite common with emotional trauma to need to re-tell I think - it’s because he hasn’t processed the feelings deeply.

The problem with retelling is that you lose the authenticity of the initial narrative. Bits of it change over time. There comes a time when you have to stop talking about you past and start doing the work mecessary to change your mind set and learned behaviour.
Harry has made out he's a victim many times, even though he doesn't use that word. The only reason he's stressing he is one, is because of South Park. These changes of stance he's making is because he isn't doing the work that is required to be done alongside therapy. It's not about constantly regurgitating what's happened , getting good feedback and tapping yourself when you feel stressed, it's about the daily grind of catching the old behaviour and thought patterns, and correcting them. It's hard work. Harry's repeated interviews show he's loving therapy - it's all about him - but he's not much further down the road of actually getting out from beneath the loss of his mother than when he started.

I had therapy for 2 hours fortnightly because I found it far deeper and more effective than one hour weekly. I found we barely scratched the surface before the hour was up. I then needed a fortnight to process that work and put it into action.

I can well see how one hour fortnightly allows a client to hold a therapist at arms length. I had plenty of therapy before I met one, I truly, truly trusted at a deep and spiritual level.

I’m going to click on the archive link now. But if Harry hasn’t even learned about self compassion, he hasn’t really got very far on his journey and isn’t likely to understand self love either as self compassion is a part of that. I used to blurt and talk about my childhood and adulthood unresolved issues. I, like Harry, lost a parent. I was older, more William’s age at the time and came from a relatively dysfunctional family on both sides and much more besides.

Before my last therapist, I idealised the dead parent and had a very difficult relationship with the one living. I had to a greater extent reconciled with the death but largely still held onto an idealistic view of who my father was. This has now very much changed. It took me years, even after I stopped the therapy to truly acknowledge he was deeply flawed. To some greater or lesser extent, we all have flaws.

I honestly wonder how many times harry can sell /tell his story. It is the exact same stuff over and over again. I am really bewildered he’s not utterly sick of hearing it, as everyone else is.

Right on cue with H&M critics.
We spent over 30yrs getting a blow by blow account of H's life in the media. Then in the last 6yrs, we had around 50 articles a day on H&M.
H&M talk a handful of times, and have exactly 1 book about .............erm, themselves.

And everyone is throwing a tantrum.

The RF walkabout it about elevated individuals who go and bless the unwashed with their presence.

What century are you living in? Who thinks like that? In fact, who was the last monarch who was viewed in that way?

I wasn’t able to prove or disprove this, but doesn’t really make it any better. It remains inappropriate.

ADHD isn’t caused by stress or trauma. Trauma can be misinterpreted as ADHD, but then that means it isn’t ADHD.

This is why Gabor Mate should be treated with healthy skepticism and not as some kind of idol.

All this therapy hasn’t really done him any good imo. And why do it so publicly? It’s just all so sad.

@MarshaMelrose

The anointing oil for Chuck - hand made in the Holy land - wants a word

Harry's repeated interviews show he's loving therapy - it's all about him - but he's not much further down the road of actually getting out from beneath the loss of his mother than when he started.

Yes I can see this potentially stuck black and white thinking - PH good victim / RF bad perpetrator - the vicious circle powered on perpetually by anger and blame.

A more ‘healed’ status is to see everyone (including yourself) with compassion and flawed. Each member of the family was emotionally negatively impacted by Diana’s death, the system they live within and the failure of the marriage beforehand.

PC would likely have experienced a complex disenfranchised grief with deep reflections and regrets with nowhere to express them as many were hostile to him. I doubt this left him much room to be the perfect parent but I am not sure I get the impression he was actively intentionally emotionally abusive to his boys.

If Harry has ADHD I can understand his behaviour and lack of self awareness. My DSS and second DH have adhd and I can see more clearly Harry's problems. The anxiety is very common, the internal narrative that completely bypasses the outer narrative. Paranoia is also pretty common.

His years of therapy have done very little and isn't addressing the real issues.

Gabor Maté is not a trained therapist at all. He's a medical doctor and has worked around mental health for decades but crucially never done a proper psychotherapy training that would have made him do the work on himself too. Explains the need for publicity...

@Ooompaloopa I think your analysis is spot on. Charles obviously loves his children and his wife. At one point I'm sure he loved Diana, but marriages fail, divorces happen. People are not perfect, everyone has flaws but very few people are all bad. Losing a parent is deeply traumatic, but it's not something people can't overcome. The son of the Yorkshire Ripper's first victim is an example of someone who overcame adversity. He was put into care, separated from his siblings, yet went on to speak with wisdom and compassion about his experience. He is well balanced and adjusted, although I'm sure has some deep sorrows. Sadly his sister committed suicide. Harry had his family, a loving father and everything he needed on a material level, yet has not integrated his trauma. ADHD is a lot about me, me me and maybe this is a factor in his lack of ability to process?

ADHD isn’t caused by stress or trauma. Trauma can be misinterpreted as ADHD, but then that means it isn’t ADHD. This is a very important point.

Whether PC was loving or not - Harry was sent to boarding school quite young aged 8 wasn't he, that could also have had an impact.

ADHD is a lot about me, me me and maybe this is a factor in his lack of ability to process?

what does this mean?

I think there have been clinical trials showing a strong link.

I'm not sure what that's got to do with walkabouts and blessing the unwashed.

As does the recent publication of his own book…..

My DH has adhd and he finds it really difficult to focus away from himself. He sees insults when there are none, just like Harry. DH is aware of how his ADHD affect him and uses mitigating tactics.

When Harry is talking you can almost see his internal voice going 90 mph, interfering with his thought processes.

Harry also talks in therapy speech, regurgitating whole slabs of conversations he's had with a therapist. However he shows very little deep understanding of what he is regurgitating

Wrong type of therapy.

I agree. I think if he was trained and didn’t have his own agenda to make his research known he would have declined the interview as Harry clearly still needs the safety and privacy of therapy. I remember GM saying in a podcast with Russell Brand how Hillary Clinton had played out her trauma during her presidential campaign by not taking rest when she was ill. I wonder he’s doing similar lately actually - he was losing his voice during his podcast with Fearne Cotton, and he’s all over the place doing podcasts and interviews etc - he must have a gruelling schedule. He’s described himself as being a workaholic in the past and seems to be on a huge drive to make his work known widely. I think it’s coming from a genuine desire for people to heal rather than being purely motivated by money (let’s be honest - we all need to earn a living so it’s not wrong to be at least partly motivated by money!), but people will heal one way or another without him working himself to the ground. Maybe it’s a sort of saviour complex coming through in him.

@MarshaMelrose
The problem with retelling is that you lose the authenticity of the initial narrative. Bits of it change over time.

I think this is true from the point of view of the objective, verifiable, hard facts of a narrative. But the emotional truth of a narrative never gets lost - at some point if Harry felt like he wasn’t listened to, that he wasn’t loved etc, those emotional truths will remain and come through in his re-tellings. The problem is that the media don’t have an understand of trauma and muddle up Harry’s emotional truths with hard facts. For any trauma victim, until those emotional truths are met with compassion from an attuned, attentive listener and made sense of, they’ll continue to rattle round inside the victim. Harry will never get that attunement from the media or interviewers.

I agree.

Most emotional / relational damage is done in very early childhood. His own mother was very unhappy, preoccupied and emotionally unstable in his early years and this would have impacted PH development.

I think PH has had repeated traumas in his life which fall on his unstable early emotional foundations which dictates his resilience and ability to process and heal. IMHO he needs to be accessing and integrating his original trauma wound first.