Harry and Gabor

[laurwalsh]

My friend just sent me this. I adore Gabor mate and the work he does. His book 'in the realms of hungry ghosts' was life changing for me who had suffered serious addiction issues. But am I being too harsh to feel disappointed he's jumping on this band wagon of garbage. I'm sorry but Harry we're sick of listening to your trauma and no offence you've sung it to death, (and I don't even think it's that bad relative to how much he has gone on and on about it) and trauma aside you're a complete hypocrite with how you've treated you're family and the trauma you've put them through!!

People in the UK massively supported troops in Afghanistan. Some didn't believe they should be there but I never heard anti soldier rhetoric.

And how can he criticise his parents for arguing in front of him when he can't remember them ever actually doing that.

I can't see what favours Maté has done for him really. He's just diagnosed him as having a series of mental disorders from reading his book. I wonder if that will make Harry feel better. Or will it invalidate what he believes is true?

But surely in the scenario you describe they themselves have suffered equal neglect and are therefore equally needing sympathy?

Totally agree.

No I’m married to a redhead. Or he was a redhead. Their pubic hair doesn’t stay red either. It greys out nicely though, really silvery.

He’s already been diagnosed with ADHD, I think. Prior to this Gabor Mate thing. I watched most of the mental health series he did with Oprah, and if I remember correctly that was mentioned.

Sadly, I agree. I now feel a bit foolish for thinking it might be something more.

That was an interesting read, I tend to agree with her.

I'm amazed Dr Phil hasn't convinced Harry to do a live special yet. I mean, it'd be a train crash to watch, but what have they got left?

I honestly wonder how many times harry can sell /tell his story. It is the exact same stuff over and over again. I am really bewildered he’s not utterly sick of hearing it, as everyone else is.

I’ve genuinely no idea how Meghan and her mother put up with it. There comes a point where you just have to friggen stop . My mother died when I was nine and I come from a deeply abusive home, but if I constantly talked about it I really would not blame anyone if they got sick of hearing it.

I am starting to think William is right, harry has had too much therapy . He’s so focused on his self and telling everyone how much of a victim he is, whilst apparently now declaring he doesn’t see himself as such.

on another note, the fail is reporting after frogmore eviction, they might get an apartment as they are saying it will be too complicated to come to the uk, if they don’t. What because they can’t just stay with daddy at Windsor or buck palace in a few of the hundreds of spare royal bedrooms?.

or what because no royal ever stays elsewhere, no royal tours, no holidays, nope. They only stay in royal grounds and there is limited bedrooms available, so no space for them.

oh and apparently it will be difficult for the kids to form a relationship with Charles if they don’t have an apartment. Nothing to do with the fact neither child has been brought to the uk since they left/were born and their parents are intent on relentlessly attacking their families. No emotional blackmail to get a free apartment there at all.

it’s like they live in some sort of parallel universe.

Did H&M say all that about an apartment or was that the daily Mail and sources?

'... a source said the couple are concerned that future visits will be 'incredibly complicated' if they are forced to stay outside the security perimeters of a royal estate', The Sunday Telegraph reported.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11821819/Charles-risks-having-relationship-Harry-Meghans-children-unless-new-royal-home.html

It's the leaking and planting of stories, I tell 'ee!

IMO no, he doesn’t sound like he’s resolved it. Harry was unable to answer some questions Gabor put to him about how he felt in childhood. He kept deflecting to other stuff and just didn’t have a deep understanding of the sadness and loneliness he felt in childhood. Gabor asked him late in the interview (it might have been a viewer’s question) about how he shows himself self-compassion - he couldn’t answer it and wittered on about doing things for others and the Invictus Games etc - he doesn’t have a clue about what showing yourself self-compassion means. Harry was keen to describe himself up front as ‘not a victim’, which to me just shows that he hasn’t got to know the part of himself that was a victim of emotional trauma or really owned his feelings of hurt - he’s still running with the story that to be a victim is a very bad thing. I think to come to terms with the ways in which we’ve been victims (ref Jung’s work on archetypes) and integrate that means you lose the script that victim = a terrible thing and you become more matter of fact about it, able to move forward.

It was disappointing that Harry obviously hasn’t read Gabor’s books, as they weren’t quite speaking the same language about trauma. So when Gabor put his list of ‘diagnoses’ to Harry, Harry missed Gabor’s point - that what the West labels/diagnoses as ‘disorders’ are actually the body’s normal response to abnormal situations/trauma. They were on the same page about it and sort of got to a shared understanding in a roundabout way, but Harry’s misunderstanding didn’t do Gabor’s work any favours and it was all a bit stilted. It felt like there was a touch of grandiosity there on Harry’s part - he obviously felt as he was the one being interviewed he just had to rock up and defer to Gabor as ‘expert’, and he hadn’t done any homework on Gabor. But also, he hasn’t become his own expert on his own experience yet which says to me he still has some way to go in his healing journey. He reveals his emotional immaturity in the power imbalance he put between him and Gabor, whereas someone who’s done the work to heal grows into knowing that only they can be the expert on their own feelings and the power in relationships becomes more balanced.

Harry is obviously still struggling to not inflict a trauma response on his children as he described over-compensating with them - he didn’t feel loved in childhood or didn’t have physical affection (hugs etc) therefore he’s very conscious to give that to his children. But he described it in a way that suggested he swings so far the other way into making sure he hugs them (he said that himself) and loves them in a way that sounded a touch overbearing - he had to qualify that he didn’t force them to hug him. If he’d done some more healing work I don’t think he’d swing quite so much the opposite way. In my experience healing work is like a pendulum wildly swinging that gradually comes to rest in that you go through periods where you swing too far into ‘loving’ others and setting boundaries etc but over time the pendulum slows down and settles and you become more measured and flexible and real. I think he’s still in the wildly swinging stage, which tbh is just a reflection of where we are in society nowadays - parents born in the 1950s, emotionally stunted as a result of WW2 trauma have birthed a generation of helicopter parents born in the 1980s. (As an aside, I think going overboard with emotional affection comes through with Meghan too, in how she acts a bit overboard with crowds - people can feel it’s not quite genuine, a bit OTT, and it’s a point she gets compared to Kate on - Kate is a bit more restrained but doesn’t love bomb crowds, and people can feel she’s more authentic).

I thought it was good that Gabor touched on how Meghan is from a broken family too, how people with similar levels of trauma often find each other in relationship, and how the ideal is that in a marriage you hold a mirror up to each other (encourage each other to own your shit) and grow together. I think Harry and Meghan are on the right tracks, they just both have a long way to go, and it’s unfortunate that they’ve blown open the (very necessary) messy, individualistic, angry, grief-filled part of the journey as it leaves them very vulnerable to criticism and press attention, which adds fuel to their fire and doesn’t give them any breathing space to process things.

I honestly wonder how many times harry can sell /tell his story. It is the exact same stuff over and over again. I am really bewildered he’s not utterly sick of hearing it, as everyone else is.

It’s quite common with emotional trauma to need to re-tell I think - it’s because he hasn’t processed the feelings deeply. I don’t think he’s had enough therapy because a therapist would help him feel the feelings while re-telling to reach catharsis, and then the need to re-tell just drops away. He said in the interview with Gabor Maté that he’d been to therapy fortnightly for a while. I’m not convinced fortnightly is enough as it must hold the therapist at a distance and not allow for the dependence/vulnerability to emerge in the relationship that’s necessary for those feelings of victimhood to really come out and rage as they need to. Instead, that rage is spilling out into Harry’s public life.

Very astute analysis.

That’s a brilliant piece. Agree with every word.

I agree with you, @Daffodilsandbeer . You make excellent points, and I am sorry for your loss 💐.
To work through his own issues publicly and at the expense of others seems cruel.
Remember how many children were made motherless by the Yorkshire Ripper. They lost their mums in the most horrific, and public, way imaginable. They've had to build adult lives - I read the account of one a few years ago - this was done, in the main, with no help and support and certainly no £ millions to fall back on. Harry could ensure that Archie and Lilibet know their UK family, as you say, you don't need a five bedroom detached home to do so. There will be safe, comfortable, well serviced apartments and properties for them to stay in if they choose to.
I don't know how long this public therapy is going to continue, but it's not a good way to live a life.

Meghan actively encourages Harry to see himself as a victim and to dwell on his trauma in my view. I think she does so because she knows there is money in it and because it alienates Harry from his family. Which suits her agenda.

Wow, that article was harsh on Gabor Maté! I haven't seen the live hour, but I suspect (giving GM the benefit of the doubt) that he was trying to be soothing and validating and to make the experience of pain a universal one (ie, bringing in a bit of self-compassion. Acknowledging 1) this is difficult for me, 2) other people have experienced these feelings too and they are normal feelings and it's part of life and 3) I should be kind to myself
SC is proven to be good for a person so I'm going to hope that they talked more, outside of the hour that was filmed and that Gabor Mate helped him. GM isn't a 'pain merchant' as the writer of that article thinks ! He acknowledges the pain that's holding you back, so you can begin to set it aside.

@BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood he will tell it until he's heard or until he has healed enough to no longer hope to be heard.

At some point, he'll finally accept that his family has disappointed him and won't change (later he'll understand that he has disappointed them and won't change).

@Starseeed that's interesting that you say that fortnightly therapy holds the therapist at a distance. I used to insist on fortnightly therapy. I couldn't cope with weekly. But I felt that it came around quickly and it was also the money issue. Unlike Harry, that was a factor for me!!!

@Starseeed apologies for repeated posts here but it's so interesting what you mention parts of yourself that you haven't acknowledged, many years ago i read carole s pearson's the hero within and of course, i realised that I had over identified with orphan. But then, I read more and understood that I had been protecting myself during this period. I was vulnerable. So it wasn't a waste of my life. I had successfully stayed safe while that was my biggest need, by not taking any risks that could have (at that time) destroyed me. Now I do take some risks. By risks I mean changing job. Not eating japanese puffa fish or playing russian roulette! I also saved a lot when I was fully inhabiting 'orphan' so that carried me out of 'orphan' in to a slightly more courageous next phase, with a sense of security. I must read that book again now that I feel a bit more ........ ready for what's next.

You should do a chat with Harry! I'd love to watch that. I hope he benefits from this chat with GM

@xJoy yes that’s interesting what you say about your behaviour/habits changing when you inhabited the orphan archetype. I think healing means coming to know fully all parts of ourselves (life-long work!) so that they’re all heard and all balanced within us. I found the internal family systems (IFS) idea of parts work really helpful for a while - the idea that we have parts who can act as managers and firefighters etc who protect our exiled hurt/vulnerable parts. ‘No bad parts’.

At some point, he'll finally accept that his family has disappointed him and won't change (later he'll understand that he has disappointed them and won't change).
then what happens? It’s like you are back to square one , only difference is you are angrier , not happier ,
either Harry or the people around him really don’t want him to move on or start a new chapter in life, or why else is he monetising his therapy sessions?

Good questions, @queenofarles .
Plus, why does this need to be done publicly?

Oh yes, IFS, the anger I felt galvanised me to opt out of a dysfunctional family dynamic. My family continues to shame me for the anger I expressed but although I wish I'd been less reactive, I won't shame myself too much for having had a visible reaction to their astonishing lack of empathy.
Was that IFS book by somebody called Richard C........... Something begining with s. I've listened to it on audible! Probably take more in and take it in better reading it in a book but still, I berated myself less for having shown anger. Yeh, the angry part of me protected me from another decade of more of the same.

And............flip side of the coin, my mother's defensiveness, reverse victim/offender and her denial and her avoidance and her projection.... that is all protecting her from something. connection with me. Wow. That still hurts, but I will sit with that for a minute here.