Princess Kate? Princess Anne? Princess Diana?

[BradfordGirl]

Why is it viewed by so many as disrespectful to refer to Kate as Princess Kate, and yet talking about Princess Anne or Princess Diana is seen as normal and acceptable?

Yes, she was always Kate until they got engaged, as I remember her suddenly being called Catherine. Her parents, sister, friends, William and Harry (even in his recent book) all call her Kate. Catherine is more formal/official, that’s all.

Apparently 'Kate' wasn't formal/dignified enough for a future queen.

Never mind that she was only about 28 at the time and unlikely to become queen for a good 30 years!

Princess Michael of Kent might have something to say about that 😂

I think if she and/or her family had really planned her royal future as some people imagine, she would never have been known as Kate.

Anne and Diana are full names, not nicknames, like Kate. I think it's the shortening that's seen as disrespectful. I think William calls her kate?

No it’s the ‘Middleton’ that irks people, as that hasn’t been her surname for years.

However it’s done for search engines, so it does make sense from that perspective.

I spent years thinking that Michael was her first name (turns out, it's Marie-Christine).

Well, she is about the same age as the actress who played the Mum in the Waltons and her name IS Michael!

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Learned

A woman who bears a title through marriage retains an altered form of the title after divorce, with her Christian/given name preceding the title. Hence Lady Diana Spencer became HRH The Princess of Wales and later Diana, Princess of Wales. Similarly Miss Sarah Ferguson became HRH The Duchess of York then after divorce Sarah, Duchess of York. If Charles had predeceased his mother while still married to Diana she would have been HRH The Dowager Princess of Wales. Catherine would have become Princess William on marriage had he not been created Duke of Cambridge, which outranks Prince. If Harry were stripped of the Sussex dukedom he would still be Prince Henry/ Harry and his wife therefore Princess Henry/Harry, definitely not Duchess or Princess Meghan. After they divorce she will be Meghan, Duchess of Sussex (not ‘Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex’ as she currently tends to style herself). But I don’t know if in the stripped and divorced version she would be Meghan, Princess Henry/Harry. Similarly, post-strip he presumably won’t be Prince Henry/Harry of Wales any more as he was when his Pa was PoW, as that form now belongs to William’s children. Someone will know!
Anne as eldest/only daughter of the late sovereign is HRH The Princess Royal irrespective of marital status because she is Princess in her own right. Princess Margaret was never Princess Royal because when her father was King the title was already held by GeoV’s daughter, his sister Mary - just as Charlotte won’t receive the title while her great aunt Anne is alive or before her father becomes King.
There is a logical form to all this but to grasp it you have to surrender any thought that women who are royal only by marriage should have any independent identity. Until the last century royals really only married other royals and rarely divorced, so it mattered less….

@IsisNo7 you must be full of hate to be talking about a couples divorce before they actually know they are divorcing. Your user name says it all really.

@handholdin Don’t be ridiculous. It’s quite obvious that @IsisNo7 is discussing theoretical eventualities and what might happen in regards to titles. It’s not ‘hatred’ FGS.

After they divorce she will be Meghan, Duchess of Sussex (not ‘Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex’ as she currently tends to style....

After they divorce - are the words @IsisNo7
used can't get any clearer than that.

Anne as eldest/only daughter of the late sovereign is HRH The Princess Royal irrespective of marital status because she is Princess in her own right. Princess Margaret was never Princess Royal because when her father was King the title was already held by GeoV’s daughter, his sister Mary - just as Charlotte won’t receive the title while her great aunt Anne is alive or before her father becomes King.

It’s extremely unlikely that Princess Margaret would ever have been given the Princess Royal title. When it’s given it’s given to the eldest daughter of the monarch.

Honestly if you can’t conceive of ‘after X’ being, in some cases, a hypothetical statement, I do worry a bit about your ability to understand context and evaluate nuance. But okay, you’re entitled to your measured opinion, of course.

he presumably won’t be Prince Henry/Harry of Wales

He stopped being "of Wales" the moment the late Queen died. At that point he became HRH The Prince Henry, along with the Sussex title. If he loses the Sussex title and retains his HRH and princely title, he will still be HRH The Prince Henry and Meghan would be HRH The Princess Henry.

And titles after divorce are not automatic; the divorce settlement and wishes of the monarch determine that. It was reported at the time that Diana was unhappy that she lost HRH and that William told her he would give it back to her when he was king.

My user name? It’s a rowing reference- No7 was my position in the boat. Not sure what that has to do with any of the content of my posts. I don’t think I’m a hater either- I accept ‘if’ would have been more diplomatic than ‘when’, although your own wording seems to imply I’m jumping the gun rather than suggesting something that will never happen!

interesting discussion! can I ask what is the significance of the HRH - is it just another ranking thing? ie. HRH The Duke of Sussex is higher than The Duke of Sussex?
What benefits does it bestow to the person and when it was taken from Diana what were the implications and why would she want it back particularly? Is is just the hierarchy and rankings?

It basically denotes one's standing within the hierarchy - HRH is very closely linked to the Monarch.

It shows that it's a royal title first and foremost. The likes of the Duke of Westminster and Duke of Hamilton are Dukes, but not royal ones.

Not using/not having a HRH makes you "just" a Duke rather than a royal Duke. Not using it, as Harry and Meghan have been asked/decided, shows that they are not doing whatever their name is on as royals.

For Diana the loss of the HRH showed she was no longer a member of the royal family.

It's all just ranking and how it looks a lot of the time.

It’s not ‘hatred’ FGS

Come on, everything's 'hatred' when it comes to mentioning the Sussexes. YOu can't be critical or disapproving or mildly dislike them or or any of the terms in one of the planet's richest and most expressive languages that convey a lack of enthusiasm for the people under discussion - you have to be a hater and full of hatred.

Hater/Fangirl: as soon as I hear/see those terms I know I can't take anything that individual says seriously.

what is the significance of the HRH

HRH in the UK nearly always indicates a prince/princess by birth or a princess by marriage. By the 1917 Letters Patent, only children of the monarch and grandchildren of the monarch in the male line can be HRH . There used to be a lesser princely style of His/Her Highness, but that was eliminated with the 1917 Letters Patent. (By convention, wives of HRHs take their husband's style.)

The male line requirement is the reason that Prince Andrew's children are HRH and Princess Anne's are not. By the 1917 LPs, Prince Edward's children are technically entitled to HRH Prince/Princess, but do not use them. Same for Harry's children.

When I say "nearly always," I am referring to a unique situation. When Philip Mountbatten (he had renounced his Greek and Danish titles) married then Princess Elizabeth, King George VI made him HRH The Duke of Edinburgh, but neglected to make him a prince of the UK, so he was an HRH who was not a prince. The late Queen remedied that oversight after she succeeded to the throne and made him a prince.

Irks me too when neither she or William refer to her as Kate. William always calls her Catherine and whenever she introduces herself or signs her name on Instagram posts, as an example, she will put Catherine. It’s so strange how random people and the press just run away with names for people or get stuck in time calling her Kate Middleton when she’s not been a Middleton by name since 2011.