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The royal family

Princess Kate? Princess Anne? Princess Diana?

161 replies

BradfordGirl · 08/01/2023 01:27

Why is it viewed by so many as disrespectful to refer to Kate as Princess Kate, and yet talking about Princess Anne or Princess Diana is seen as normal and acceptable?

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AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:15

Technically Henry's mother had a better claim than he did too but she chose not to pursue that and IIRC was known as My Lady, the King's Mother. She outlived him too. Margaret was a remarkable woman really, but one who's had a lot of bad press recently thanks to the Ricardian superfans!

SenecaFallsRedux · 08/01/2023 17:16

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:11

I have a history degree @SenecaFallsRedux so I'm aware of all that!

I wasn't questioning your expertise. I was just adding to the discussion for anyone on the thread who might be interested, as others are doing.

SenecaFallsRedux · 08/01/2023 17:25

As to the discussion of why the husband of a queen does not have the title of King, there is actually some precedent in Britain for the husband of a queen regnant to be given the title of king. Philip of Spain, the husband of Mary I of England was named co-ruler when they married and called King of England. He spent most of his time in Spain, though, and never really functioned as a ruler in England. And his title did not survive Mary, who was succeeded by her sister Elizabeth.

Henry, Lord Darnley, the husband of Mary Queen of Scots, was made King Consort of Scotland.

Philip of Spain and William of Orange were co-rulers, but William's title survived his wife's death, unlike Philip's case. Mary II had a superior claim to the throne as the daughter of James II and VII (William was the son of James’s sister), and William's secondary position in the succession was recognized in the settlement which provided that if Mary died first and William remarried, any potential children with a second wife would be after Queen Mary’s sister, Anne, in the succession, thus making her, after Mary's death, the only female Heir Apparent in British history.

One of the reasons for husbands of queens regnant generally not being called King is the historical notion that King is a higher title than Queen. In many European countries where the Salic law prevailed, only men could inherit the throne and so queens in their own right were very rare or nonexistent. And even in countries that allowed women to reign, men took precedence in the succession until very recently (and still do in some).

It's certainly possible with more egalitarian rules about succession, the notion that King is a higher title can change and male consorts can be called King. With more queens regnant on the horizon all over Europe (Sweden, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Spain) and a move to have more equality between the sexes in these matters, we might see the King Consort title revived for the husbands of Queens.

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:28

If we'd had Salic law in the U.K then I believe our king would be Ernst of Hanover. And a quick read of his Wikipedia entry will make you very glad we don't have Salic law in the U.K!

TangledWebOfDeception · 08/01/2023 17:28

Is that the punchy guy?

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:33

Punchy, drunky, pisses in pot plantsy.

TangledWebOfDeception · 08/01/2023 17:33

(fist fight broken up by Anne-Marie)

TangledWebOfDeception · 08/01/2023 17:33

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:33

Punchy, drunky, pisses in pot plantsy.

Ugh. Yes, nasty man.

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:34

There was an incident at a royal wedding some years back, I think he got in a punch-up with another euro "royal". Queen Anne-Marie of Greece was also involved in some way, you couldn't make it up!

Derbee · 08/01/2023 17:35

BradfordGirl · 08/01/2023 01:27

Why is it viewed by so many as disrespectful to refer to Kate as Princess Kate, and yet talking about Princess Anne or Princess Diana is seen as normal and acceptable?

Surely it’s clear? Anne is her name. Diana was her name. Catherine is her name. Not Kate.

Annie, A, Didi, Di etc etc would all be the equivalent of Kate.

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:38

Oops no @TangledWebOfDeception it appears Ernst was not involve in the fight Anne Marie broke up https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/29/spain.johnhooper

But he was handed a suspended jail sentence in 2021 for fighting with a police officer so he's hardly an innocent! https://www.tatler.com/article/prince-ernst-august-police-incident

TangledWebOfDeception · 08/01/2023 17:39

Oh. Well there's more than a few fighty/nasty royals!

forgotmyusername1 · 08/01/2023 17:48

asblindasabat · 08/01/2023 01:50

Why is Anne’s husband not a ‘Prince’? Same with Beatrice and Eugenie’s husbands?

For the same reason it wasn't queen Elizabeth and King phillip

Princessglittery · 08/01/2023 17:49

@AnnunciataZ from the little I know Margaret was quite remarkable in how she navigated the politics. She also had a hard life having been married so young.

Kissedbyfire1 · 08/01/2023 17:49

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 17:38

Oops no @TangledWebOfDeception it appears Ernst was not involve in the fight Anne Marie broke up https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/29/spain.johnhooper

But he was handed a suspended jail sentence in 2021 for fighting with a police officer so he's hardly an innocent! https://www.tatler.com/article/prince-ernst-august-police-incident

I thought he was dead!
And wasn’t Prince Philip the equivalent in his family of Viscount Severn i.e. a younger child of a younger son and therefore well down the line of succession?

BradfordGirl · 08/01/2023 17:55

Derbee · 08/01/2023 17:35

Surely it’s clear? Anne is her name. Diana was her name. Catherine is her name. Not Kate.

Annie, A, Didi, Di etc etc would all be the equivalent of Kate.

Except we have all heard William call her kate. So clearly she is called Kate when people talk to her.

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BradfordGirl · 08/01/2023 17:58

In terms of the idea that Kate is officially Princess William and that is what we should call her, it is an incredibly old fashioned idea. People go along with it for elderly women who want to be addressed that way. But Kate is only 40. It would make her seem very stuck in the past and as if feminism never happened.

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SenecaFallsRedux · 08/01/2023 18:11

That article, oh my. It's funny too that they refer to "deposed Queen Anne Marie of Greece" but Prince Vittorio Emanuele as "heir to the throne of Italy." I do believe that Italy is a republic, you know, sort of like Greece.

SenecaFallsRedux · 08/01/2023 18:13

BradfordGirl · 08/01/2023 17:58

In terms of the idea that Kate is officially Princess William and that is what we should call her, it is an incredibly old fashioned idea. People go along with it for elderly women who want to be addressed that way. But Kate is only 40. It would make her seem very stuck in the past and as if feminism never happened.

I agree but that is British Royal Family protocol. European royals don't do this; for example, the wife of Prince Carl Philip of Sweden is Princess Sofia.

Create10 · 08/01/2023 18:16

BradfordGirl · 08/01/2023 17:58

In terms of the idea that Kate is officially Princess William and that is what we should call her, it is an incredibly old fashioned idea. People go along with it for elderly women who want to be addressed that way. But Kate is only 40. It would make her seem very stuck in the past and as if feminism never happened.

She isn't Princess William any more. She is The Princess of Wales.

Create10 · 08/01/2023 18:29

Princessglittery · 08/01/2023 17:10

I was talking theoretically. The marriage was probably a political one on Henry’s part as a pp said to shore up his claim. He definitely wasn’t going to share power like William and Mary.

There have been many theoretical kings and queens over the years, but the monarch became whoever had the strength and power (and support) to hold their claim.

Derbee · 08/01/2023 20:57

BradfordGirl · 08/01/2023 17:55

Except we have all heard William call her kate. So clearly she is called Kate when people talk to her.

He always refers to her as Catherine.

AnnunciataZ · 08/01/2023 20:59

In public yes, but he calls her Kate in their engagement interview so I presume that's what he calls her in private too.

kirwanco · 08/01/2023 21:10

British people are funny, obsessing over the title of a woman who does ‘walk-abouts’, waves at crowds and engages in Victorian cosplay while literally millions of our fellow Brits live at the mercy of charity and food banks. Fucked-up sense of priorities if you ask me. Call her, ‘Catherine, The Princess of Wales’, call her ‘Kate Saxe-Coburg’, ‘Mrs. Middleton’, whatever. It still doesn’t fix a broken system.

pelargoniums · 08/01/2023 21:10

Derbee · 08/01/2023 20:57

He always refers to her as Catherine.

Only since The Firm decided she needed an image rehaul and started peddling the Catherine line.