I'm feeling a bit sorry for Harry

[ssd]

I feel like he needs his mum more than ever. To put an arm round him and say "enough son".

He needs guidance, he's never had maternal guidance. Its well documented that Williams life has been really enhanced by Kates parents. Harry has never had that and i feel sorry for him.

@notanotheroneagain But harry is the one who has been racist on several occasions. Prince Phillip is dead so can't 'atone' for anything A woman with a brooch which is a far more complicated story than the one pedalled so is questionable whether it's racist. A crass comment which we know nothing of the context or wording by one person once ... and has since been accepted as not being racist and not intended to offend by the people involved. So what do they need to personally atone for?

Ironically, only Harry's racissm is held up there. Even though he is one of the few to acknowledge, apologise and atone within the RF.

Its become common that when people acknowledge and apologise for something they have done, that their acknowledgement becomes a stick to beat them with. No matter that they have apologised and set about atoning. Harry is an obvious example.

We live in a time when apologies are often seen as weakness (it happens on here) and atonements are discounted.

You’re right about this phenomenon

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 so true.

Prince Phillip is dead so can't 'atone' for anything A woman with a brooch which is a far more complicated story than the one pedalled so is questionable whether it's racist. A crass comment which we know nothing of the context or wording by one person once ... and has since been accepted as not being racist and not intended to offend by the people involved.

For those of you interested- imagine how POC feel when people gaslight them like this. Seriously. One person is dead so we shouldn’t comment on their racism. Wearing a fucking blackamoor brooch is not really fucking racist. And the piece de resistance - invalidating Ngozi Fulani’s experiences in the interest of maintaining the fucking illusion that there is no fucking racism in the RF. Oof. I am properly heated. Enough internet for me today.

And the piece de resistance - invalidating Ngozi Fulani’s experiences in the interest of maintaining the fucking illusion that there is no fucking racism in the RF.

Honestly, this feels very similar to me to when Harry invalidated his own wife's experiences by minimising the RF's racism and calling it unconscious bias. He did the same with Ngozi Fulani's experience - oh we love Lady Hussey, she didn't mean any harm. It's great that he was forced to apologised for his overt racism as a young man. But his attitudes still seem problematic to me.

Thank you. I can’t even respond to this shit anymore.

Yeah it's just inflammatory shit.

I will quote myself on another thread

I haven’t forgotten because although Harry is technically right (they don’t call the RF racist) - the effect of the interview was such that they did. I personally am disappointed with Harry because I feel he should have owned it and in walking back in the less uncomfortable sounding unconscious bias (which is just racism by another name), he has given cover to many people who refuse to acknowledge that there is actual racism in the royal household. He has lots more work to do. Lots.

Yes - it is fucking invalidating whoever fucking does it. Hope that fucking helps. I at least hold hope for two people who are open to the conversation of why it is - instead of the fucking point scorers playing with peoples very real lives.

You know - there are reams of thought of what Meghan’s inclusion in the RF would have done to quell the ground swell of unease many POC have with RF because for some - that would have been enough for some to ignore the historical background of the RF. And there are also thoughts of the cognitive dissonance Meghan will have to had to have been part of it. But we cannot have those fucking conversations when people are so busy fucking denying the fucking racism that is actually fucking happening now.

But we cannot have those fucking conversations when people are so busy fucking denying the fucking racism that is actually fucking happening now.

I completely agree. Just pointing out that Harry is very much part of this problem - and a big part - having minimised the racism of the RF and their circle towards both his wife and Ngozi Fulani publicly on tv, in front of millions. This is way bigger than anything posters on a MN thread come out with and imo is in no way negated by apologies he made for his own overt racism several years ago. He is still doing it.

@SoTedious well someone is doing it right here amongst us people of colour on the thread and you’re saying nothing so I’m not convinced you actually give a shit about the actual problem if you ignore it when it’s in front of you. It’s just another Harry dig for you

Tbh, you and another regular seem to double down while people of colour are explaining racism to you.

The only thing you seem to care about is using racism (and twisting some things even) as a stick to bit Harry with - which leaves a bad taste in mine and other posters mouths.

You are not anti racist and it's evident for everyone to see.

I haven't been on the thread for a week - I admit I haven't read every post but have skimmed the last few.

In any case what does it matter if I care about racism or not - there is still a weird disconnect when people are more upset about PPs minimising racism on the thread than Harry himself doing it on tv. I'm sure I've seen people saying how great it is that he apologised and has learnt. He quite clearly hasn't. I believe there is an important conversation to be had about racism in the RF but he's out there denying it.

The RF sacked Lady Hussey, made her apologise and William spoke out against her publicly - Harry defended her.

It’s literally just above us and what @skullbabe commented on. It’s a lot more dismissive of actual intentional racism than what Harry said- which is a distinction a lot of people of colour make and Meghan may too, that there’s a difference between unconscious bias and actually thinking white people are superior. They’re not the only ones to talk like this, and assuming Harry spoke without Meghan’s advice or opinion on it is to fulfil a narrative about him while he’s trying, publicly, to learn and evolve. Where posters on this board aren’t and people of colour here are having to post in a hostile racist environment. If people actually cared about racism they’d pick it up on the thread too.

Harry defended how it was dealt with and thought that was positive. It’s the difference between actually wanting people to learn and grow and wanting to crucify and cancel anyone permanently who gets things wrong once. Lady Hussey has been seen back in the fold I believe.

Tbh, you and another regular seem to double down while people of colour are explaining racism to you.

I am agreeing that what happened to Meghan and Ngozi was racism. I am agreeing that it was wrong. I disapprove of people minimising it. I don't know what else needs to be explained or what your evidence is?

Whether you or I like him or not - and there are lots of reasons to like and dislike him - Harry as a white man went on tv and minimised his family's racism and the experiences of two victims of it. It's very simple and really important if you want to have this discussion, that this is acknowledged imo.

Harry defended how it was dealt with and thought that was positive. It’s the difference between actually wanting people to learn and grow and wanting to crucify and cancel anyone permanently who gets things wrong once. Lady Hussey has been seen back in the fold I believe.

That's good then? The RF obviously agree that people learn and grow and haven't crucified or cancelled her permanently? What they didn't do was go on tv saying aw but she didn't mean any harm.

@SoTedious you still haven’t explained why you are silent when racist things are said here right in front of you, in fact you responded to @skullbabe addressing it by going on about Harry again and ignoring what just took place here. If you cared about racism you would say something when it’s happening here. I don’t think you do actually care based on the fact you’re ignoring it.

Also just to say that I am going to work now so if anyone says anything racist and I don't jump in, that's why.

Anyone who is tempted to search MN for the aforementioned evidence of my pro-racist stance, go for it.

I just want to explain what you don't seem to be getting

I expressed signficant frustration that another poster on this board was gaslighting people of colour on this board by invalidating racism in the royal family

Your response to this was "Harry does it too"

I am talking about other posters on this board - you are talking about Harry.

Do you see how our subjects are different? Do you see how when I'm talking about how POC feel about other posters invalidating racism you talking about Harry is a non sequiter? Do you see that you are actually talking over what I am saying? I'm glad you believe that Meghan and Ngozi experienced racism - do you agree that other posters who are denying it are correct in minimising it? Because that is effectively what you have done in your haste to remind me that Harry is the most racist of all racists - you have tacitly agreed with the actual gas lighting of POC on this thread. This is why other commenters have said that you seem to be interested solely in Harry and not what is actually in front of you.

Yes it is acknowledged. You are aware that another member of the same family that they were not a racist family - also on TV. We should acknowledge that too seeing as it is demonstrably false. Perhaps we could have a grown conversation about it but I won't hold my breath because let me check my notes "what does it matter if I care about racism or not" - yep as I thought.

I view apologies and atonement as a strength. But when people then backtrack and blame others for their own bad behavior it becomes clear that it was all for show.

Also, can’t fail to note the hypocrisy when someone apologizes for their own bad behavior and is forgiven but then begins pointing out the same behavior in others, failing to extend the same grace they were given.

If you say you’re sorry then “but he made me do it” and “but she did it, too” your apology loses meaning and you lose your own credibility.

I have not invalidated racism in the royal family. Harry was one of the biggest of them all. Prince Phillip, definitely by todays more keenly attuned ears, the queen, William and Kate, Charles and Camilla, not that we know of. Lady Husey is not a member of the RF. she was an employee and sacked. Wearing a brooch depicting an African/moorish prince is an example of unconscious bias. I think they've just never given such artefacts much thought.

Whoever made the remark to Harry about any future children's skin colour, whether joking or not, needs to come forward and say what was said. I don't think it was intentionally hurtful, and Chris rock agrees. However it was crass and insensitive and I would say racist. Harry said it was unconscious bias and Meghan said it was too.

People will disagree but UB is something many people have and just need to be made aware of but is without ill intent.

Racism is clearly ill intentioned.

However apart from very few examples I don't think the family as a whole are racist, just simply not educated in equality.

The Princes trust has helped a million young and disadvantaged, people in the time it's been in operation. It's a great charity set up by Charles in his twenties using his own naval pension. Many of those kids helped were not white, but this is clearly not featuring in the bigger picture.

If Chris Rock says so it must be the truth then. A family with untold riches meant to be representing the country worldwide not educated on equality that's ok then they are free to carry on. If you are going to come up with excuses for them surely you can do better than that.

@hopelessbuthopeful Well it's obvious from my post that they need to look at educating their staff and themselves.