Page 26 | Do Harry and Meghan realise hardly anyone supports them?

Spck · 2023-01-02T21:40:10+00:00

So everywhere there seems to be complete negativity towards the Netflix documentary and the autobiography coming out. They seem to be universally slated as whingers. so how much do you think this feeds back to them? It must be v easy to live in a bubble with close supporters telling them they are doing a grand job. But how much reality do you think gets through of how badly they are coming across,

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 11:20

TiddyTidTwo · 07/01/2023 11:17

When even the Taliban suggests Harry needs to see a doctor......

I really liked H&M but the scales definitely dropped from my eyes some time ago

'I really think he has gone mad and needs a doctor'.

Shame his US enablers can't see what everyone else can. Or maybe they can they just want to milk it for every last cent.

Glindara · 07/01/2023 11:22

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/01/2023 10:03

They are not quoting Harry's own book though. They are summarising the Spanish version, based on gunfire word for word translation, which is literal rather than literary, then publishing the most head grabbing headlines out of sequence and context.

Blaming Meghan misses the heart of Harry's struggle, which anyone with imagination and empathy can tell has been the issue for all the spares, Margaret, Andrew, Harry, and even the Queen's father, the spare who became the king, but resented it all his life. It's the horrible notion that you are valued mostly as a replacement if the worst happens to the heir, but you are diminishing in importance as other spares are born. It's a horrible life, and to different degrees, Margaret, Andrew and Harry had their lives blighted by it. You are not free to fully live your life, you are not allowed to outshine the heir so there is a limit to how public you can be, but at the same time, you become less important to the institution as time goes on. So you give up a lot for very little in the end.

The memoir headlines are not actually quoting the book. Just a couple of examples. It is not made clear that the please don't marry Camilla thing is what he said aged 12, when he met her within a year of their mother's death. It was not said by a grown up Harry but has been spun to make it seem that way. He also then says he and William became happy for his father when he saw that Camilla made him happy. That is not headline news though.

The memoir also has a tight narrative thread that is not reflected in the bits headlined. I already pointed out the clumsy mistranslation of the title of part one, Desde la noche que me envuelve, which should be the literary Out of The Night That Covers Me, and not the literal Since the night that surrounds me as the papers are saying.

That's because a basic rule of translation is that you don't retranslate already famous texts like poems. It is clear that the literary device and narrative arch that Harry is using is to follow Henley's Invictus, the poem that inspired the name of Harry's games for veterans. It is a narrative device that chimes in with Moehringer's narrative style. Anyone who has read Moehringer's other books could have predicted that this is very clearly a redemption story, which you miss if you take bits out of sequence, just like with The Tender Bar, his own memoir and Agassi's Open.

On the bright side, the publicity has shot up sales, and it will mean more people buying the book to actually read his words, and not the interpretation of them by those, like the DM who have reason to trash him to the point of calling the Taliban to ask for a comment.

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The memoir also has a tight narrative thread that is not reflected in the bits headlined.

How can you know this?

Have you read the book?

Or are you just speculating - whilst at the same time telling others not to speculate?

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 11:24

'Why shouldn't he make a living from what he is?'

Omg. Look happened when Markle blabbed to the media. They cut him off.

They have done far, far worse then H bleats on in latest chat show appearance that he wants reconciliation. Didn't Thomas marke say this too? Harold is copying his own estranged fil's behaviour.

bakalava · 07/01/2023 11:27

That poster is what I would call a fantasist with a superior attitude. Much like Markle.
She wants to prevent knowledge about Meghan's relationship with porn star Simon Rex from being discussed on MN and a multitude of sources confirming that Simon was paid off to deny the stories and issued with a cute thank you card for his cooperation. I would advise you to investigate for yourselves.

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/01/2023 11:28

C8H10N4O2 · 07/01/2023 11:19

Why shouldn't he make a living from what he is? Its what all the other royals have done. All the royals make their money by trading on their connections.
Nearly every thread on inheritance here ends up being "you must share equally between the DC even if some don't need it" but when it comes to the royals its just fine for one to be handed billion quid fortunes and estates whilst the other takes relative pennies.

The fortunes of the royals have been almost entirely built up since the time of the relatively impoverished Victoria. They were manufactured via a whole series of tax exemptions and law exemptions which still exist today. How else could William be handed a billion quid estate with no tax liabilities?

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You missed the memo: only Harry should not be able make money from revelations about his own life. 🙄

The same posters going on about the privacy of William gobbled up the Courtiers book and the Bowers book, gleefully accusing Meghan of assaulting staff, stealing shoes, Doria of being in jail etc, all unproven stuff, but it's suddenly an issue that Harry has written his own book and is spilling the real tea!

@Janiie, I am enjoying this saga on Mumsnet because the scruples you are all expressing were thrown out the window when it was Meghan and Harry who were being trashed. How many threads were there on the Bowers and Courtiers books?

Funny that.

bakalava · 07/01/2023 11:32

Damage control. Damage control. Whatabouttery. We can still pull it off Squad!! 🙄😁

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 11:37

'They are not quoting Harry's own book though. They are summarising the Spanish version, based on gunfire word for word translation, which is literal rather than literary, then publishing the most head grabbing headlines out of sequence and context.'

10/10 for total if utterly misguided defence. Aka as straw clutching.

They won't be making it up. Poems etc nor really relevant here.

I'll ask again do you think gossiping about William's circumcision is ok? Can you really not see he has crossed so many lines here with his military blabbing and the gross invading of William's privacy.

What will it take for you to say yeah he has gone way too far here

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 11:43

'You missed the memo: only Harry should not be able make money from revelations about his own life.'

<sighs>

If he wants to talk about himself fine. Chat about LA and any charity work (if anyone will have him).

Just leave out how small his bedroom was and Willy's was bigger, how they got a sofa on credit and William had big paintings (the cheek of it!) how his wife sulked because Kate wasn't keen on sharing her lip gloss or being mocked for her 'baby brain'.

Talk about himself til the cows come home just stop the awful unedifying oversharing about other people.

He is a nasty bitter fool who needs to go away and reinvent himself rather than playing this tedious, perpetual victim.

Ohnonevermind · 07/01/2023 11:44

I’m surprised someone working in publishing can’t understand the difference between an autobiography (ghostwritten) and a biography (unauthorised)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

bakalava · 07/01/2023 11:49

🤔

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 11:53

'it's suddenly an issue that Harry has written his own book and is spilling the real tea!'

'Spilling the real tea'. Did you support Thomas Markle spilling his tea, if not why not? He mustn't invade their privacy with his chats on daytime telly but they can invade the royal family's? I wonder how supporters manage irl with such a skewed and blinkered view on things.

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/01/2023 11:54

Things have reached another level indeed when the Taliban is not only quoted, but quoted approvingly on Mumsnet. 😁

Goodness me.

@Glindara, I said, The memoir also has a tight narrative thread that is not reflected in the bits headlined.

You quoted that and asked: How can you know this? Have you read the book?
Or are you just speculating - whilst at the same time telling others not to speculate?

This not speculation, the first part of the memoir in Spanish is called Primera parte - Desde la noche que me envuelve. It mans Part One, and the quote is the first line from Henley's Invictus. Writers divide books into parts to give narrative structure to the whole, so Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 etc, each section focusing on a different aspect.

If you read enough American literary memoirs, to which tradition harry's book belongs, and if you have read this ghost writer's work before, as I have, and if you know the basic facts about Harry's life, it's not rocket science to work out that each part will focus on a different part of his life, and that each part will likely have a title inspired by Invictus.

Roussette · 07/01/2023 11:54

What do they have to do for the scales to fall from their fawning-fangirls eyes?

Do you think that anyone would want to take your post seriously and answer you when you use such pathetic prose?

Roussette · 07/01/2023 11:56

C8H10N4O2 · 07/01/2023 11:11

Not according to any of my US colleagues or Tina Brown. The Wales' recent shindig to Boston OTOH went largely unnoticed by most of them.

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Talking of Tina Brown... here is her take on it all on Radio 4.

twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1611291022817992706

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 11:58

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/01/2023 11:54

Things have reached another level indeed when the Taliban is not only quoted, but quoted approvingly on Mumsnet. 😁

Goodness me.

@Glindara, I said, The memoir also has a tight narrative thread that is not reflected in the bits headlined.

You quoted that and asked: How can you know this? Have you read the book?
Or are you just speculating - whilst at the same time telling others not to speculate?

This not speculation, the first part of the memoir in Spanish is called Primera parte - Desde la noche que me envuelve. It mans Part One, and the quote is the first line from Henley's Invictus. Writers divide books into parts to give narrative structure to the whole, so Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 etc, each section focusing on a different aspect.

If you read enough American literary memoirs, to which tradition harry's book belongs, and if you have read this ghost writer's work before, as I have, and if you know the basic facts about Harry's life, it's not rocket science to work out that each part will focus on a different part of his life, and that each part will likely have a title inspired by Invictus.

Yes yes very interesting but what William's circumcision. Do you think this was Harold's 'tea to spill'. Please don't give us another few paragraphs about literacy, translations or poems. I know times are desperate but let's stick to the content shall we.

Roussette · 07/01/2023 11:58

TiddyTidTwo · 07/01/2023 11:17

When even the Taliban suggests Harry needs to see a doctor......

I really liked H&M but the scales definitely dropped from my eyes some time ago

So you'd rather take what a vile Taliban leader says than someone from this country who fought them?

Blimey.

Looks like the Taliban are going to popular over here. All because they criticise Harry.
You couldn't make it up.

Blossomtoes · 07/01/2023 12:01

Roussette · 07/01/2023 11:54

What do they have to do for the scales to fall from their fawning-fangirls eyes?

Do you think that anyone would want to take your post seriously and answer you when you use such pathetic prose?

Badly phrased indeed @Roussette but I too am wondering what it would take to stop you and @MrsMaxDeWinter defending the Sussexes. The two of you remind me of a certain poster who defended Johnson to the hilt throughout Partygate despite the overwhelming evidence against him. Do you seriously believe your increasingly desperate attempts to defend them or have you painted yourselves into the corner?

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 12:03

Roussette · 07/01/2023 11:58

So you'd rather take what a vile Taliban leader says than someone from this country who fought them?

Blimey.

Looks like the Taliban are going to popular over here. All because they criticise Harry.
You couldn't make it up.

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The pp was suggesting that even the vile taliban can see what some of you refuse to. He needs help and fast.

No the taliban aren't 'going to be popular' what an appalling thing to to say. We can only hope they don't instruct crazed jihadists to even up his 'kill' count.

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 12:04

'The two of you remind me of a certain poster who defended Johnson to the hilt throughout Partygate despite the overwhelming evidence against him'

🤔

bakalava · 07/01/2023 12:04

One of those is doing paid work. The other believes she is online friends with a distinguished author, Oxbridge doncha know and I'm the Pope😂

BethJ62 · 07/01/2023 12:05

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 11:58

Yes yes very interesting but what William's circumcision. Do you think this was Harold's 'tea to spill'. Please don't give us another few paragraphs about literacy, translations or poems. I know times are desperate but let's stick to the content shall we.

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Agree . Can you imagine the outrage if William told the world about Harry’s circumcision ?? MN would implode .

notimagain · 07/01/2023 12:05

@DownNative

I do not know a single British Army veteran who would do what Harry has done

For info rightly or wrongly, there's supposedly a least one other Apache crewmember who has published an account of their time in Afghanistan (and in the book included a guess as to how many people they had killed), though she possibly used a pseudonym...

Blossomtoes · 07/01/2023 12:06

Rhondaa · 07/01/2023 12:04

'The two of you remind me of a certain poster who defended Johnson to the hilt throughout Partygate despite the overwhelming evidence against him'

🤔

😉

Glindara · 07/01/2023 12:06

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/01/2023 11:54

Things have reached another level indeed when the Taliban is not only quoted, but quoted approvingly on Mumsnet. 😁

Goodness me.

@Glindara, I said, The memoir also has a tight narrative thread that is not reflected in the bits headlined.

You quoted that and asked: How can you know this? Have you read the book?
Or are you just speculating - whilst at the same time telling others not to speculate?

This not speculation, the first part of the memoir in Spanish is called Primera parte - Desde la noche que me envuelve. It mans Part One, and the quote is the first line from Henley's Invictus. Writers divide books into parts to give narrative structure to the whole, so Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 etc, each section focusing on a different aspect.

If you read enough American literary memoirs, to which tradition harry's book belongs, and if you have read this ghost writer's work before, as I have, and if you know the basic facts about Harry's life, it's not rocket science to work out that each part will focus on a different part of his life, and that each part will likely have a title inspired by Invictus.

So your answer is No - you haven’t read it?

Which means you can’t declare it has a tight narrative thread - so that just leaves you back at speculation.

Or we can do this another way - your way - the snippets you refer to are out of context and not fully / successfully translated - so at this time you are not in any position to declare the book has a tight narrative thread…

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/01/2023 12:07

I’m surprised someone working in publishing can’t understand the difference between an autobiography (ghostwritten) and a biography (unauthorised)

An autobiography is not always ghost written, though, like a memoir (which Harry's is) it can be ghostwritten. But many writers write their own autobiographies or memoirs, so no, they are not always ghost written.

Nor is a biography always authorised. Lucian Freud's recent biography was authorised, with the author William Feaver getting access to his subject and after freud died, his archives and letters, but biographies are not always authorised. You will find, for instance, that Lord Byron, Alexander Hamilton, Napoleon or Churchill are regrettably too dead to authorise biographies of their lives.

If you want to come for me, @Ohnonevermind in my area of work, you may want to read a little before you attack. If you are up for some heavy reading, of more than 1500 pages, I highly recommend the Lucian Freud biography. It is stunning scholarship and beautifully written.