The curtsy/curtsey

[Shewonticeskateorseesanta]

Apologies if other threads on this, I haven’t noticed specifically about this.
Just watcher the H&M documentary (I’m a little behind)
What were your thoughts on the scene where Meghan describes the curtsey? I just found it uncomfortable watching Harry’s face, was she taking the piss?
Ive no opinion on them either way tbh, but must admit I’m interested in the relationship between them. He always looks so desperate to please/prove he’s doing things right…is this just love for her? Is there something off or am I reading too much into it?

'An upbringing of great privacy'?

I must have imagined millions of people watching him on the day of his mothers funeral then. Cameras clicking away when he was hours old. Grown men following them on holiday and jumping out of bushes. Every adolescent misstep captured forever and debated on the world stage.

He'll have far more privacy in California where he is just another famous person in a city full of them.

I’m no fan of Meghan and Harry, quite the opposite, but FGS the woman was clearly taking the piss out of herself and her clumsy curtesy. I don’t think Harry knew how to react - I imagine he probably wanted to laugh but also knew how bad that could be twisted.

And the rules for who bows / curtsies to who. It isn't fixed it depends on who is with who at the time.

Queen / King everyone bows / curtsies to him / her.

William and Kate, everyone except the king bows and curtsies to them but if Kate is on her own she has to curtsey to everyone who out ranks her.

It's crazy.

And sometimes meeting HMQ wasn't planned. I know ages ago on here there was a thread about meeting celebrities.

Anyway the poster was a chef, had cooked a meal and was in the kitchen chatting to the police protection officer with her feet up when HMQ walked in to thank the cook.

But is there any evidence that it was a problem that Meghan curtsied the wrong way?
I doubt if there was. The Queen met thousands, if not, millions of people: some would have sneezed; some moved to close to her; some toppled over. Mistakes would be factored in to managing these meetings and expected.

And family members. A rare if not unique context to be curtsying or bowing. But the point is, you are not bowing or curtsying to the individual, you are recognising the office which they inhabit.

It's a rare situation, but not one with no links to anything else. The Mayor or Lord Mayor wears heavy, pompous chains and is treated with a degree of respect, when inhabiting that role. Religious clergy are; the priest or Bishop. Again it is about the role. When relaxing with their family, I expect many priests are called 'Father'. To that extent, they don't switch off from the importance of the role, because it is a grave and serious one, like the Queen's role, and they are mindful of the wish not to dishonour the role and let their hair down when off duty, and make a mockery of the institution.

The Queen and other senior Royals keep these customs going, because they have always been done that way: and because of their age and generation. The Queen died at 96. She knew a different world. Charles may change some of this conventions at home, and not expect girlfriends or fiancée's of children or nephews, to bow to him. But the motive has been to honour the seriousness of the role and the responsibility and duties which go with it.

Is there any suggestion that the Press said Meghan got her walkabouts, curtsying all wrong? What is the issue with Meghan mentioning it in her docuserie? Is it just to create the image of the Royals being like that themed dining chain: Medieval. Eg, a bit preposterous and historic?

I can't imagine Mike, Autumn, Sophie and Tim Lawrence all got their comments or bows absolutely right. At family gatherings, it doesn't matter so much, who is the closest to the throne. They are all grandchildren and partners assembling for those events. How did Autumn Phillips find it? Did the curtsying give her stress? We never will here, but it would be interesting to hear how others cope. Although, I suppose we can say that Mike Tindall seems ok with it all, as he seemed cheerful enough on 'Im a Celebrity....'. And, reportedly, the late Queen liked to spend a lot of family time with he and Zara.

I can see why you say that but I think she uses the story to plant the message that she is the victim.

Harry visibly cringed at her behaviour. I'm surprised they didn't re-shoot that scene.

@Diverseopinions Technically, you only have to bow/curtsey if you're one of her subjects i.e. a citizen of the Commonwealth so she didn't actually need to curtsey at all. Some people outside of that do in fact curtsey or bow, out of respect rather than deference.

They certainly could have left that bit out.

There wouldn’t have been a flag flying at Royal Lodge so H wouldn’t have seen anything as they were pulling up.

The Queen has been at a service at Windsor and decided to drop in to the York’s place.

It really sums up her disrespect for the RF and confirms why she was never suited (and wasn't interested in being suited) for the role.

I have a (RC) priest or two in my family and nobody calls them Father. I wouldn't call my DS Father Gary or whatever if he had become a priest. I won't call him Doctor when he finally qualifies either.

It takes a very odd and very dysfunctional family to go maintain the bowing and curtseying in private when 'the institution' is sitting in an armchair eating her dinner from a TV tray.

I don't think she applied for any "role"? She wanted to be with Harry

She really wasn't. she wasn't mocking rhe queen either, she was mocking the protocol of curtseying, by demonstrating a ridiculously theatrical overexaggeration for rhe camera.If she had been mocking herself, t hen Harry would not have looked so uncomfortable

The Royal Family is unique and that makes their ways seem odd. Old-fashioned also.

Going back sixty years, people were formal within families. My mum called her mother-in-law 'Mother'. Now, it would more often be first names..Carol, Ann, etc.

In some countries, people call extended family members 'Sister', 'Brother'. And teenagers call the adult friends of their mother: 'Auntie', rather than the first name. It is a form, and a mannerism. It might not be what everybody does, but it is a rather old-fashioned custom, which some want to adhere to, for the sake of the older generation. All these formal customs are tokens of a type of respectability that those who do it believe in.

I would imagine that either Charles or William would dispense with the bowing and curtseying. The Queen was 96, after all. Her customs and sense of etiquette came from a long gone age.

But I don't think people are necessarily dysfunctional, just because they follow formal customs. I wondered how Catherine would get on in the Royal Family when she married William. The two of them seem to have created a happy family life, with normal young kids, who occasionally stick out their tongues, or look bored at public events. The parents are private and discreet, so have struck that balance well - not trying too hard to draw attention to their normalness and making a point about how cool they are. They don't want them as figures of interest to overshadow their work. They have just got on with the job, shining the light on the ordinary people they meet.

And Mike Tindall , who was well known prior to marrying Zara, seems to have come in and out of the jungle without looking too damaged, so I personally don't buy any suggestion anyone might make that the Royal Family is like a weird cult.

That’s interesting.

We have a couple of Greek Orthodox priests in our family.

Hell would freeze over if we didn’t call them Father or kiss their hand when greeting them for the first time that day.

We would never ever be able to call them by their names. It’s just not done. Even their wives when talking about them to us will call them Father.

I’d be mortally offended if someone took the piss out of my culture for this. It’s no less acceptable that Meghan does it to the British.

I do think there is a lot of vitriol towards Meghan in particular.

Whether she was taking the piss out of herself, the RF or the Queen she will not get it right.

Do we ever hear about the now Princess or Wales and curtseying? Not a word, and yet she didn't curtsey on her way into church on her wedding day.

No one gives a shit but if Meghan had forgotten it would be brought up again and again.

Do we ever hear about the now Princess or Wales and curtseying? Not a word, and yet she didn't curtsey on her way into church on her wedding day.

I don’t think any of the Royal brides would have done this. It is their day and they are getting married which presumably trumps
royal protocol. They all curtsied on the way out if I remember rightly.

sashh no royal brides curtsy on their way up the aisle. They all do after the ceremony though. There's certainly plenty of photos and footage of Kate doing a quick curtsy when she meets the queen, followed by a kiss on the cheek. She does it in such a low key way I don't think most people even notice.

Again, to all the PPs who mock curtseying as being ridiculous, did you get given away by your dads when you got married? Or wore white? Please do tell.

It is interesting to read about the family customs surrounding Greek Orthodox priests. It concurs with what I had thought about formal customs continuing in many different groups in many different communities.

I'm pleased these reverences continue in order to honour the office - and the sense of responsibility which goes with it.

I’d be mortally offended if someone took the piss out of my culture for this. It’s no less acceptable that Meghan does it to the British.

The problem is that too many people see criticism of an individual family which sees fit to observe customs belonging back in the 1700s as criticism of 'the British' and the entire British culture.

Meghan isn't doing anything to 'the British'.
People need to stop over-identifying with the British royal family.

Your family observes customs that are relevant to a certain role in a particular religion, which has nothing at all to do with family members bowing or curtseying to a person whose position is actually a polite fiction maintained for constitutional purposes.

Again, to all the PPs who mock curtseying as being ridiculous, did you get given away by your dads when you got married? Or wore white? Please do tell.

You're trying hard to establish some sort of comparison here, but you're not getting any takers because people don't generally bow or curtsey to family members and so the comparison is quite a reach.

There is otoh shock and horror and plenty of mockery of those very conservative Americans who call their fathers Sir and their mothers Ma'am. If you wouldn't consider this normal or healthy, then why is it ok to preserve archaic manners in aspic behind the walls of Buckingham Palace?

There are a lot of British people who wouldn't know that you vowed to the Queen in private. People.only seem to be obsessed with Royal protocol since Meghan came in the scene. It gives them something to beat her with.