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The royal family

The curtsy/curtsey

223 replies

Shewonticeskateorseesanta · 10/12/2022 21:20

Apologies if other threads on this, I haven’t noticed specifically about this.
Just watcher the H&M documentary (I’m a little behind)
What were your thoughts on the scene where Meghan describes the curtsey? I just found it uncomfortable watching Harry’s face, was she taking the piss?
Ive no opinion on them either way tbh, but must admit I’m interested in the relationship between them. He always looks so desperate to please/prove he’s doing things right…is this just love for her? Is there something off or am I reading too much into it?

OP posts:
Daffodilsandtuplips · 10/12/2022 23:51

sunstoked · 10/12/2022 22:33

Come on - most young people these days have done a full Internet history check across all media before even going on a first date. I honestly don’t think anyone is that naive to date a prince and know nothing or research nothing about his family. Even dating someone who isn’t part of the Royal family very early on you have conversations about your family/beliefs/customs. It’s a natural part of getting to know each other.

This. Unless she was living under a rock all of her adult life, she will have known who she was getting involved with, who his family were: The Queen, and Diana, his mother, two of the most photographed and famous women on the planet, will have come across her radar at some point.
There’s plenty of information out there on etiquette and protocol when in the presence of the royals : Google, books, documentaries.

Notaninterestingfact · 10/12/2022 23:52

Daffodilsandtuplips · 10/12/2022 23:51

This. Unless she was living under a rock all of her adult life, she will have known who she was getting involved with, who his family were: The Queen, and Diana, his mother, two of the most photographed and famous women on the planet, will have come across her radar at some point.
There’s plenty of information out there on etiquette and protocol when in the presence of the royals : Google, books, documentaries.

I know who they are. Dating one of them though? I wouldn't have a clue about protocol.

LoveMyPiano · 10/12/2022 23:56

I think that she did the OTT curtsey in the documentary for effect, and that is why Harry looked uncomfortable; he knew she was making it up. She may well have been more prepared than she says, and that may or may not have been by Harry. His discomfort might be because he actually didn't prepare her well enough, or she is implying that he didn't, which is warped...... It is all so artificial.

CassandraBarrett · 11/12/2022 00:06

PicturesOfDogs · 10/12/2022 23:03

I said the way she said it.

And then she looked at Harry to make sure he’s caught it, and he looked down.

It made me uncomfortable

Ah ok, I was wondering if there was some protocol she had broken there . Thank you 😊

AntipodeanUpstart · 11/12/2022 00:07

From outside the UK all this vitriol directed at Meghan looks a bit unhinged frankly. Its like you all feel like she rejected you, and therefore is bad and must be punished.

How dare she question our dysfunctional ways!!!

tabulahrasa · 11/12/2022 00:19

AntipodeanUpstart · 11/12/2022 00:07

From outside the UK all this vitriol directed at Meghan looks a bit unhinged frankly. Its like you all feel like she rejected you, and therefore is bad and must be punished.

How dare she question our dysfunctional ways!!!

It looks unhinged from inside it too tbh.

AloysiaW · 11/12/2022 00:24

AntipodeanUpstart · 11/12/2022 00:07

From outside the UK all this vitriol directed at Meghan looks a bit unhinged frankly. Its like you all feel like she rejected you, and therefore is bad and must be punished.

How dare she question our dysfunctional ways!!!

From inside the UK all this vitriol directed at the royal family and the UK looks a bit unhinged frankly.

AutumnCrow · 11/12/2022 00:32

I'm not from the UK - and that was a really uncomfortable look on Harry's face there. Just saying.

Backonceagainwiththerenegademaster · 11/12/2022 00:41

I thought it was an uncomfortable, angry look…like he felt she was mocking him or something, it was weird

BabyFour2023 · 11/12/2022 00:47

I think, wrt Harry’s lack of prep for Meghan, it could be because it’s all genuinely normal to him. He’s probably never had to explain this sort of thing because his exes were British and from the types of families who perhaps mixed in certain circles that he assumed people just knew the etiquette. Would it just not occur to him that an American would need telling you curtsy to the Queen?

mathanxiety · 11/12/2022 01:23

@AloysiaW

Was it Michelle Obama who ended up having a hugest with the Queen one time?

People think the rules around personal deportment in the presence of the monarch are preposterous and unbelievable because they are preposterous and unbelievable.

onlylarkin · 11/12/2022 02:03

She was making fun of herself for being an American and not having the first fucking clue how to curtsey.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 02:04

AntipodeanUpstart · 11/12/2022 00:07

From outside the UK all this vitriol directed at Meghan looks a bit unhinged frankly. Its like you all feel like she rejected you, and therefore is bad and must be punished.

How dare she question our dysfunctional ways!!!

It does appear to be that. Like we don't like an American coming in and stealing the limelight.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 02:07

Before Meghan, would any of you have known that if you were dating Prince Harry that you still curtsy to the Queen in private? I wouldn't have even thought that! She appears terribly down to earth in any documentaries about her. Wellies and hills in Scotland, horses and dogs. I would have thought that she wouldn't be one to dance on ceremony.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 02:11

I love Michael McIntyre (English comedian) doing a show at which William and Kate were in attendance. That poor man must have sweated buckets prior to it as he gently pushes the boundaries of being civil (they did laugh though).

AndEverWhoKnew · 11/12/2022 02:25

I think the biggest issue isn't an US/UK divide but a class divide.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 02:31

AndEverWhoKnew · 11/12/2022 02:25

I think the biggest issue isn't an US/UK divide but a class divide.

Class divide on whose part?

Zuyi · 11/12/2022 03:57

My mum met the Queen for 2 minutes, and they gave her a training beforehand on how to curtsey. It's hard to believe that Meghan got no advice at all.

MistletoeandBaileys · 11/12/2022 04:15

I also took it that she was taking the piss out of herself for the way she did it. I think what has everyone frothing at the bit is Harry’s face. He just looked so uncomfortable.

That’s why it’s after taking on this whole dynamic of she was insulting the Queen.

I do wonder if the curtsey in private was something that was left over from the time before the Queens reign that she kept up as was tradition and custom?

It just seems like something that could easily be changed for family in private. Fair enough the palace staff would still do it but for family it seems a bit off.

Ivyonafence · 11/12/2022 04:21
  1. she was laughing at herself, not the institution.

  2. even if she was, the concept of curtsying in the 21st century is a joke and worthy of ridicule. It's funny how many British people are clutching their pearls at the idea that someone would make fun of it.

Diverseopinions · 11/12/2022 05:13

SuperCamp · 10/12/2022 22:36

She was laughing at herself for her naivety and inexperience and doing such a ridiculous OTT curtsy, possibly as she had seen in period dramas.

Harry did look uncomfortable. He is uncomfortable many times when there is anything about people encountering the hierarchical stuff. Maybe he was uncomfortable recalling her discomfort, maybe he was worried that she was coming across not as she intended (e.g straight into the jaws of the DM), maybe he is embarrassed at having brought someone into such a bizarre set up.

I think the Royal Family probably think that by keeping traditions going, they are keeping the institution going and preserving a formality which is useful for our country, in the operation of constitutional affairs when you want an official and ceremonial side. They seem to see continuity without too much change as a positive aspect of preserving the higher values.

I suppose knowing the Royals are formal is better than thinking that they shut the doors, slump back on the sofa, and say to each other: "Well that was a pile of tripe, having to talk to those boring councillors. How long is it before we have to do one of those tedious engagements again? The pretence is doing me in". At least we know that they believe in it all.

It's a bit like Church, where you genuflect, if you are a Catholic, or you line for communion and do the same things in a certain way. The forms are thought to help preserve the seriousness and sense of responsibility which is attached to the greater values of the institution. I have a friend whose husband is a reverend. She refers to him as 'Pastor' - she says 'Pastor was asking after you', not Tim was asking after you. It isn't unprecedented to see formality carried over into some of the forms of relationships. If you marry into a family which has a set of values, then I suppose you accept them, or choose not to marry in.

There are plenty of photos of the Queen going to kiss a young adult Harry warmly on the cheek, or letting a smile escape when she is inspecting a line of troops of whom he - her own grandson - is one. We know that she could and did display warmth to her family members.

Since his stint on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here, wasn't a disaster, I'm minded to take back my opinion that Royals will struggle to get a show like that right, and to wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea for Mike Tindall, that ex English Rugby tough guy, to give his take on what it is like being in the Royal fold at Christmas and having to bow and maintain formality.

He seems to be doing ok with Royal forms, and the experience hasn't changed him, judging by how he behaved on I'm a Celebrity, f-ing away at times, and being his comfortable self. The Queen was said to enjoy the company of Zara and Mike pretty much above that of all her grandchildren. Harry has said he has chatted to his grandmother telling her who to watch out for and who to take advice from, so she was ok that with that degree of assertiveness from a younger relative, and can't have been that forbidding.

Anyway, I doubt if the ceremonial part of Royal traditions would really be the thing to give you stress. I don't really know why it's worth revealing the curtsey episode. If I'd married somebody whose father was a free mason, and he was weirdly secret about what they do in the Lodge, and disappeared off to another room to learn things for his next meeting, I don't think I'd either tackle him about the ridiculousness of the secrecy and ritual, if I saw it that way, or berate my partner about it. It's just their choice. Families have things that seem odd, but it's usually possible to go along with certain things and maintain your essential integrity of who you are, the way Mike Tindall must have done and for whom the etiquette was probably a million from what he was used to.

NotABeliever · 11/12/2022 06:50

AntipodeanUpstart · 11/12/2022 00:07

From outside the UK all this vitriol directed at Meghan looks a bit unhinged frankly. Its like you all feel like she rejected you, and therefore is bad and must be punished.

How dare she question our dysfunctional ways!!!

It's not vitriol to say that it wasn't kind of her to mock her husband's family traditions however ridiculous they may be and that it's hard.to believe no one showed her how to curtsey.

panko · 11/12/2022 06:54

She was mocking herself.

She wasn't told she was meeting the Queen until just before. So she panicked and then had never curtsey before so was doing what she saw on some TV show which was over the top.

OLP2019 · 11/12/2022 07:06

Blinky21 · 10/12/2022 22:21

Curtsying or bowing to another human is completely ridiculous and should be mocked. They have an appeal that shows up the rest of the stuffy RF which is probably why they got treated as they did. I think it was a massive mistake for the RF, which could have used H&M to make themselves more open and appealing to future generations

Yes maybe it is but there's photos out there of people curtsying to her and she seems to be ok with that

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 11/12/2022 07:15

I think that people who are saying it's hard to believe she wasn't taught to curtsey are forgetting one major thing: formal meeting vs informal meeting. You are instructed how to curtsey/bow when meeting the Queen (King now) at an official meeting.

As Harry and Meghan said, this was a PRIVATE occasion, so no staff or aides around. It was just Harry and Meghan in the car. And, this was the first time she had ever met the Queen.

The were no aides or staff with Harry and Meghan at the private residence or in the car.

That's the difference.

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