Rumour that the King won't make Edward Duke of Edinburgh

[PrincessJanet]

Allegedly as part of the King's desire for a slimmed down monarchy.

I would have thought that the Royal Family could really do with the Wessexes as working royals. If they slim down so far in a few years they'll soon beonly the Cambridges available.

I don’t think she did. The Queen was still alive when she said it, and when Louise turned 18, so if the Queen had any objections to it then it would have just gone unsaid imo. Especially given how close Sophie appeared to be with her MIL.

As always @Serenster , you explained the situation very clearly . Thank you .
It has always puzzled me why M ( and H?) see the titles thing as an issue given their views on the “ toxic” family they come from ?.
The only thing H and M have done that I agree with is keeping the DC out if the public eye so why on earth would they want them to have titles especially in a country that doesn’t recognise such things ?

Meghan: That’s a huge piece of it, but, I mean, but . . . 

Oprah:  . . . and that having the title gives you the safety and protection?

Meghan: Yeah, but also it’s not their right to take it away.

Oprah: Yeah.

This bit cracks me up.

Who did she think has the right to give or to take away royal titles other than the monarch? The sovereign can grant or withdraw titles at the stroke of a pen.

Honestly, I think it's yet another example of the family being a bit shit with the emotional stuff. The obvious thing would have been to gently start talking with Harry about this from the time of Edward's marriage and frame it as being the best way to give his DC freedom. They should have changed the LP after James was born, well in advance of the next generation being born and then it all would have been agreed and planned out before the wives were even on the scene.

I think the "highly unlikely" bit of that remark by Sophie is the significant part.

Start talking about what though?

There was never any question of his children being prince or princess while only great grandchildren of the monarch.

And which LP's did you want them to change?

I don’t think there is/was a plan to remove titles from Harry’s children - too many opportunities to set it up in advance were missed.

It could have been changed around the time of the Wessex marriage and wasn’t.

It could have been changed when the amendments were made for the Cambridge children after the primogeniture changes, but it wasn’t.

It could have been announced at the time of Harry’s marriage, like it was with the Wessexes, but it wasn’t.

The fact that nothing has been done to this point suggests to me that Charles fully intended for all of his grandchildren (as he was likely never going to have more than 5 or 6 anyway) to be titled.

I agree that new LPs should probably have been issued by the late Queen. But I don't think anyone had an idea of how fraught the whole business would be by the time Charles took the throne.

The fact that nothing has been done to this point suggests to me that Charles fully intended for all of his grandchildren (as he was likely never going to have more than 5 or 6 anyway) to be titled.

Another possibility was that Charles and/or the Queen thought that Harry and any future wife would be happy to go along with their wishes in relation to streamlining the royal family, and follow the precedent set by the Wessexes without the need for formal changes to be made. We are obviously both speculating here, though.

The RF were too complacent. Nobody had gone rogue in so many decades that they never saw it coming. Even if they had their doubts with the accelerated engagement and wedding , they never expected H to become a stranger to them and allow it to get this far.

We are speculating, but that’s part of the fun of having a royal family imo.

I just don’t think Charles is the type to leave things like that to chance. He wants to streamline so if he really wanted it to be just the eldest’s children who are titled he wouldn’t leave it on the off chance that his future eldest grandchildren had a dozen children and titled them all.

And whilst even if he had made changes a future monarch can change them, it will be hard for anyone in the future to justify making the family bigger or changing relatively recent LP’s. Whereas he’d have been changing ones 100 years old, and issued at wartime.

I think that the slimming down contemplates that the children of a monarch's siblings in the male line would not be HRH as the current LPs provide. The difficulty (well one difficulty anyway) is that a monarch's sibling is previously a monarch's child.

While they are at it (whatever that is), they should address the sexism in all of it (the male line business, etc.). Prince Michael of Kent's children are Lord and Lady, but Charlotte's will be Mr and Miss/Ms unless she marries someone with a title.

I agree with this. Even many Royal Family fans seem to think Harry would walk away from his wife and children rather than turn his back. I can't imagine that ever happening.

I think that the fact the sexism wasn’t addressed when the LP’s were issued for the Cambridge children is very telling.

That was a massive opportunity to sort out all the issues and the fact it was ignored was very telling for me.

I think it just meant that they knew George was a boy so they didn't need to try that hard

Perhaps.

I just think it’s that Charles isn’t a moderniser in that fashion

I agree Charles is not a moderniser. Philip was a moderniser.

It's been said Phillip wanted it to go to Edward but as the Queen held the title Charles wants it to go to Charlotte. Is it just gossip that Phillip or the late Queen wanted it to go Edward or is it documented?. Edward is already an Earl perhaps he doesn't want it? Given Charles wants to slim the Monarch down Charlotte would be a better recipient omo.

*Imo

It was announced on Edward’s wedding day that his parents wished him to become the Duke of Edinburgh down the line.

He hasn't even been king for 3 months. I wouldn't expect to see any major changes at this stage in his reign.

Unless the King issues new Letters Patent, they already have authority from the sovereign from the extant ones.

I doubt either will ever use HRH or Prince/ss, given earlier comments from their mother, but that's down to upbringing and expectation.

They had to change the LP for the Cambridges, and do so before any of them were born. Because otherwise had George been Georgina,, and next in line to the throne, she would still have been Lady Georgina Cambridge (or Mountbatten-Windsor). Whereas her younger brother would have been HRH Prince Carl - because he was eldest son of grandchild in direct line. And then little brother would have been Lord Louis. Obviously a nonsense, and I think the right call was made to give all siblings the same royal style. But it could have just been changed for the eldest to be HRH Prince/ss.

The changes were made before Harry had even met Meghan, so I don't think his choice of future bride was a consideration. Harry would have known this, and should have been able to explain it.

His DC could have been Lord and Lady (customary to use subsidiary title, but not a requirement)but they chose to eschew titles them, and do not seem to be taking up the new royal ones now. Which makes sense, and has Wessex precedent

An image of the document is on this thread as part of the post by Serenster · at 21/11/2022 13:00

I think she's right to point out that Charles removing a title from the first family member of colour would be a questionable decision

We also need to aim off a bit because the only source for this is her. And the rest of what she says shows she is somewhat muddled on these topics. Whatever her understanding might have been then, it's certainly not happened (would have to be gazetted)

It didn't revert to the crown when Prince Philip died, it became Charles's title by inheritance. It reverted to the crown when Charles became King.