Rumour that the King won't make Edward Duke of Edinburgh

[PrincessJanet]

Allegedly as part of the King's desire for a slimmed down monarchy.

I would have thought that the Royal Family could really do with the Wessexes as working royals. If they slim down so far in a few years they'll soon beonly the Cambridges available.

I just saw that Charles is allegedly saving the Edinburgh title for Charlotte. I’m slightly conflicted as I think it is absolutely lovely for Charlotte as hopefully Princess Anne will be around for many years and therefore the Princess Royal title won’t be available.
However it was his parents wishes for Edward to get the title …….

I read the same article, it is an interesting point that Charlotte is the first female who will not move down the line of succession until/if George has children as she will always remain above Louis.

The second in line is usually given the York title - I can see why they would want to give Charlotte a title (not the York one!) but I still think Edward should get the one he was promised.

He is just trying to make the monarchy last a bit longer. Very different from a few decades ago when the cost of the monarchy or the validity of primogeniture for any position of privilege in society or government links was not discussed or disputed. They did not then of slimming down the monarchy then, did they.

Actually Charlotte is not the first female who could not be displaced in the line of succession by the birth of a younger brother (or in her case, younger half brother). That distinction belongs to Queen Anne, who was the only female heir apparent to the crown in British history. This occurred on the death of her sister Mary II. The settlement which brought William and Mary to the throne provided that Anne's place in the line of succession would be ahead of any children born to William by a second wife after Mary's death.

At present, these news articles appear to be nothing more than speculation. If the royal family is really intent on slimming down the monarchy, they might well decide to start by ending the practice of handing out dukedoms.

Sorry, I don't know what your point is. That Charles is, as I say, slimming the monarchy down in the same way all the monarchies across Europe are doing? Or something else?

I don't quite see the problem. Can't Edward get it as a life peerage only, as all other non-royal peers do?

Charlotte is very different as she’s much closer to the crown. Her father and brother will likely be king. Sure George could abdicate, and Charlotte could do a harry but she is not the same as James by a long shot. James is more like Zara. Charlotte is planned to be a working royal

charlotte currently is 3rd in line to the throne, James is 14th. It’s a totally different thing. If anything happened to George before having kids, or he abdicated, Charlotte would be queen.as such she’s treated very differently to someone 14th in line. The odds of James ever being king is pretty much non existent, the odds of Charlotte being queen is much higher, she’s next in line after George. As they are so young, they can’t assume anything about George.

Perhaps we could save a fortune by having common folk cut ribbons? Perhaps the people actually involved in creating whatever the ribbon is celebrating.

Perhaps we could save a fortune by having common folk cut ribbons? Perhaps the people actually involved in creating whatever the ribbon is celebrating.

Yes, because that will really draw in the crowds and media attention to the charity concerned, it would be tumbleweed.

Perhaps we could save a fortune by having common folk cut ribbons? Perhaps the people actually involved in creating whatever the ribbon is celebrating.

Because if the newspaper said King Charles is cutting the ribbon, I'd go have a look.
If it said Ivy Fence is cutting it, I'd flick by and it wouldn't even register.
For charities that would sort of undermine the point of the ribbon.

Today they say that the title might one day go to Charlotte. It is a nice idea but the same problems with the hereditary nature of the title will arise in 30 or 40 years time. Also she will probably be made Princess Royal. Maybe the King could change the rules and make the title like the Princess Royal title (Basically in the gift of the monarch for one of their children, life long but not hereditary) and then Edward could have it now and Charlotte or Louis could have it later.

Although Prince Edward is not King Charles’ son so perhaps too late if that was the case. (He could give it to Harry! 😉)

I am warming to this theme - in honour of the longest serving consort to gift to anyone the monarch likes (probably in recognition of being a hard working royal) but lifelong and not hereditary. Sorted - not sure they will listen to me though.

Very different from a few decades ago when the cost of the monarchy or the validity of primogeniture for any position of privilege in society or government links was not discussed or disputed

Few decades? You mean several centuries ago! It's been under discussion on and off for as long as I can remember (back to the 60s) and I know from history books that it was also a live issue post-war, round the time of the abdication, during the depression, whilst then then Queen was a recluse following Prince Albert's death. And of course lets not overlook when Britain was a republic, and the restoration.

I don't quite see the problem. Can't Edward get it as a life peerage only, as all other non-royal peers do?

There are no life dukedoms. Though there aren't any particular reasons why any future new ones couldn't be created in that way. If one were to be conferred on Charlotte, then it would be a new one (current ones are all male-lineage ones) and could be made heritable or not.

That's what the Victorian Order, the Order of Merit and Companion of Honour are there for. Plus other ennoblements (which are usually life peerages)

And the Dukedom of Edinburgh already exists, and is heritable, so it would need to be a new title for a life dukedom. (At least I think that's the case - can be created any way the monarch wants, but one created that's it).

Now that it has merged with the crown, wouldn't it be recreated if given out to someone else? I am sure they make up new rules all the time - don't they call that "issuing letters patent". Prince Louis and Princess Charlotte shouldn't have been Prince and Princess until the Queen died but she changed the rules. Not to mention the change to the rules of succession that meant Charlotte is ahead of Louis in line to the throne.

It would be recreated.

They could create it as a lifetime thing for Edward, but you can only imagine the media reaction to that. It would put young James in the spotlight as to why he wasn’t to get it and why such an unusual thing was needed and just needlessly cause and add to speculation about him. I can’t imagine Sophie would want that in any way, shape or form.

I don't think they can re-create it in that sense. The monarch would be creating the person as Duke. But the Dukedom stays exactly the same T&Cs (as it were) as when it was first created - no exceptions to this so far that I can think of.

The changes to the succession was a huge piece of diplomacy round all the realms, nations with monarch as head of state, and rest of the Commonwealth, plus parliamentary work.

Quite a different thing to royal titles and styles that are in the gift of the monarch, but which follow convention and precedents to restrain capriciousness.

It’s not a given Charlotte will be princess royal. The reason is she is in line to the throne, Anne and anyone before her were not, as they were female, the rules of succession changed before George was born, and if something happens to george or he doesn’t have kids then Charlotte could be queen. She would likely only get Princess royal once george has children and she’s taken out the immediate line to accede the throne.

i guess it confirms the intent is for Charlotte to be a fully working royal, the kids already “work”, and are often at public events, unlike James, who is home schooled and held very private.

harry and Meghan though will be pissed if Charlotte gets it, they were apparently baying for their kids to have hrh titles, I guess so they could follow in their fathers illustrious footsteps of capitalising on those titles and selling gossipy stories on the family for money.

it’s a shame, as I suspect if Harry had stayed working, he would have been made duke of Edinburgh , and with his military titles he could have done some good. Instead his kids are basically strangers to his family and all he really does now is sell stories about his family. At least Meghan makes an effort to do other stuff. Harry doesn’t even pretend any more.

A prospective duke/duchess of Edinburgh would be a new creation. It's been created three times in the past, each a new creation with different subsidiary titles. The King could make it for life; that would be unprecedented, but not impossible.

But the Dukedom stays exactly the same T&Cs (as it were) as when it was first created - no exceptions to this so far that I can think of.

There have been a couple of exceptions (sort of). Edward VII and Alexandra’s daughter Louise married Earl Fife, a Scottish landowner, and his title was upgraded to the Duke of Fife on their marriage. Louise and her husband then only had two daughters, and to prevent the title being extinguished, Queen Victoria re-granted the title of Duke of Fife with a special provision allowing it to be carried through the female line. So their oldest daughter became the Duchess of Fife in her own right when her father died, and as her only son pre-deceased her, her nephew eventually became the next Duke of Fife.

The same special provision was made for Lord Mountbatten, whose title of the Earl of Burma was inherited by his older daughter Patricia (again, he only had two daughters). The Earldom then passed onto Patricia’s oldest son, Norton Knatchbull, when she died in 2017.

Both of these were a one-generation-only special grants, but useful precedents for women inheriting titles in their own right.

I think it is a lovely idea. Charlotte is the only grandchild who obviously resembles the late HMQ and will hopefully share her love of Scotland when she grows up.
Let us hope for the sake of K&W that Edward and Sophie do not flounce off due to this H&M style. K&W are already snowed under having to stand in for workshy family members while raising three young children and E&S are now an integral part of the new model for the monarchy.
I am not sure whether James is homeschooled. He was certainly at Eagle House at one point.

It’s not a given Charlotte will be princess royal. The reason is she is in line to the throne, Anne and anyone before her were not, as they were female, the rules of succession changed before George was born, and if something happens to george or he doesn’t have kids then Charlotte could be queen. She would likely only get Princess royal once george has children and she’s taken out the immediate line to accede the throne.

Charlotte's proximity to the crown really shouldn't matter if the Princess Royal title is vacant and William wants to give it to her. All previous Princesses Royal were in line for the succession, some just farther down the line. King George VI would probably have given it to Elizabeth if it had been available. Princess Victoria (daughter of Queen Victoria) was Princess Royal and heir presumptive for the first year of her life.

unlike James, who is home schooled and held very private

He is not home schooled and, just like Lady Louise before him, hardly ever attends functions (other than family occasions - births, marriages and deaths) because he is still a minor.