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The royal family

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

‘Courtiers’ 2

1000 replies

RandomPenguinHouse · 30/09/2022 11:30

The last thread filled up during a particularly chatty morning.

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27
MrsMaxDeWinter · 01/10/2022 21:20

Serenster · 01/10/2022 21:19

I imagine as a salaried professional working for the Royal Family it would be expected that you be available if the situation required it. A serious incident might have needed to be dealt with quickly. Berated is the word used in the book, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the entirety of the conversations and again, we're hearing about it third hand with no detail about what the issue was. Presumably this source would have shared that with Valentine Low, but this was omitted.

I cam only epeat - harassing your (salaried, professional) staff out of hours and repeatedly berate them is never acceptable. Never. You are just making yourself sound ridiculous by claiming there’s a “maybe but” where this would ever be appropriate.

And yet the same excerpts quote Charles as calling staff at all hours, but that, apparently is because he is passionate and demanding and has high standards!!

ajandjjmum · 01/10/2022 21:20

LondonWolf · 01/10/2022 20:43

He was always a fool. I'm old enough to remember him young and I remember he was sent to visit Lockerbie to represent the queen. We didn't know the silly comments he made then but I remember watching as the car pulled up and he leapt out and and did this kind of silly jog over to those dealing with it all. He honestly looked quite excited by it all, and that he was involved. His whole demeanour was jarring and inappropriate.

Didn't he say something along the lines of 'this was bound to happen one day' - so insensitive to all of the families who lost someone on the flight or in Lockerbie!

Jibbajabba1 · 01/10/2022 21:21

@Serenster
For real?! The shoe thing made me cringe

Jibbajabba1 · 01/10/2022 21:23

@ajandjjmum
I didn’t know about that, what an awful man

Aspiringmatriarch · 01/10/2022 21:25

I cam only epeat - harassing your (salaried, professional) staff out of hours and repeatedly berate them is never acceptable. Never. You are just making yourself sound ridiculous by claiming there’s a “maybe but” where this would ever be appropriate.

Harassment is never appropriate, of course not. But calling 'out of hours' is normal in certain jobs where there's an expectation or a need for swift resolution. Thanks for saying I sound ridiculous though, always a pleasure.

Ohnonevermind · 01/10/2022 21:25

Didn’t another staff member get abuse for following royal protocols on sending back freebies sent to the Sussex’s

it was a change of culture for Meghan but the staff member was only following guidelines

Maireas · 01/10/2022 21:29

I'd heard that Prince Andrew was boorish and entitled - it doesn't surprise me about ramming the security gates. What's the umbrella story?
Apologies if someone has posted this upthread and I've missed it.

LondonWolf · 01/10/2022 21:38

Just reading about the removal of titles and slimming down of main royals happening within the Danish RF right now. Isn't something similar what Charles has been rumoured to be considering for years?

Serenster · 01/10/2022 21:45

Harassment is never appropriate, of course not. But calling 'out of hours' is normal in certain jobs where there's an expectation or a need for swift resolution. Thanks for saying I sound ridiculous though, always a pleasure.

As someone who has has spent my entire career in the jobs you are referring to, where there is an expectation that the work will be done whatever the hours (getting necessary orders from the High Court over the telephone from at 3am, for example) I stand by what I have said. If there was something that the staff member should have been doing that night, then calling them every 10 minutes to check up on it is still micromanagement that can easily cross over into the bounds of harassment.

And, this is also ignoring what the staff member in question actually said:

On another occasion, when Meghan felt she had been let down over an issue that was worrying her, she rang repeatedly when the staffer was out for dinner on a Friday night. “Every ten minutes, I had to go outside to be screamed at by her and Harry. It was, ‘I can’t believe you’ve done this. You’ve let me down. What were you thinking?’ It went on for a couple of hours.” The calls started again the next morning and continued “for days”, the staffer said. “You could not escape them. There were no lines or boundaries – it was last thing at night, first thing in the morning.”

So they weren’t ringing because she needed to do work, they were ringing to scream at her for something she had already done that they were unhappy with.

DFOD · 01/10/2022 21:48

ajandjjmum · 01/10/2022 21:20

Didn't he say something along the lines of 'this was bound to happen one day' - so insensitive to all of the families who lost someone on the flight or in Lockerbie!

I thought it was something inept and clumsy about statistics?

Ohnonevermind · 01/10/2022 21:52

www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1317194/prince-andrew-duke-york-royal-family-news-lockerbie-queen-elizabeth-ii-spt/amp

athis was a link I found. Not the best source but as it’s quotes.

what a buffoon.

JADS · 01/10/2022 21:57

The PA umbrella story is horrendous. It's almost not the shouting and swearing bit, it's the running to Mummy and lying. Horrible. I really hope that he is stripped of his dukedom. If he was a half decent type, he would just stop using it. I don't think he will though.

MrsTumblebee · 01/10/2022 21:57

He said, statistically it was bound to have happened one day. That it was worse for the Americans. That it had only impacted the Lockerbie community in a small way.

Serenster · 01/10/2022 22:00

And yet the same excerpts quote Charles as calling staff at all hours, but that, apparently is because he is passionate and demanding and has high standards!!

Ther’s a big difference between calling your staff repeatedly out of hours to scream at them because you are unhappy with something they have done, and calling them out of hours because there is a genuine business need. The latter is, in many jobs, expected and completely normal.

The example given of Charles was that in one instance he had called someone over the weekend for a completely spurious reason. I’ve had that myself, and generally rolled my eyes at the phone and gone off to tell my husband that my boss was being ridiculous. In an ideal world, that wouldn’t happen, no. But it’s a world apart from harassing a staff member outside of working hours.

Ohnonevermind · 01/10/2022 22:14

I’m guessing all the courtiers from Margaret’s day are all retired or dead, they’d have some tales

ShamedBySiri · 01/10/2022 22:15

People keep talking about the umbrella story but I've missed it and can't find it.
Can anyone drop a hint how far back I have to go?

Aspiringmatriarch · 01/10/2022 22:17

Serenster · 01/10/2022 21:45

Harassment is never appropriate, of course not. But calling 'out of hours' is normal in certain jobs where there's an expectation or a need for swift resolution. Thanks for saying I sound ridiculous though, always a pleasure.

As someone who has has spent my entire career in the jobs you are referring to, where there is an expectation that the work will be done whatever the hours (getting necessary orders from the High Court over the telephone from at 3am, for example) I stand by what I have said. If there was something that the staff member should have been doing that night, then calling them every 10 minutes to check up on it is still micromanagement that can easily cross over into the bounds of harassment.

And, this is also ignoring what the staff member in question actually said:

On another occasion, when Meghan felt she had been let down over an issue that was worrying her, she rang repeatedly when the staffer was out for dinner on a Friday night. “Every ten minutes, I had to go outside to be screamed at by her and Harry. It was, ‘I can’t believe you’ve done this. You’ve let me down. What were you thinking?’ It went on for a couple of hours.” The calls started again the next morning and continued “for days”, the staffer said. “You could not escape them. There were no lines or boundaries – it was last thing at night, first thing in the morning.”

So they weren’t ringing because she needed to do work, they were ringing to scream at her for something she had already done that they were unhappy with.

If that's the full story, then I agree it's unacceptable. It's difficult without knowing what the whole incident was about, but I agree it's not the right way to behave.

DFOD · 01/10/2022 22:22

ShamedBySiri · 01/10/2022 22:15

People keep talking about the umbrella story but I've missed it and can't find it.
Can anyone drop a hint how far back I have to go?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11268467/amp/Prince-Andrew-launched-torrent-foul-language-Queens-press-secretary-new-book-claims.html

SilverLiningPlaybook · 01/10/2022 22:30

Serenster · 01/10/2022 20:48

What was the incident that triggered the phone calls? It might have been something very serious.

Just so you know, there is nothing serious enough in a work context that justifies repeated phone calls while the employee is off duty not to resolve the issue but to berate them about it. Nothing.

I also think its worth remembering that Meghan had never been a “boss” before until she became Harry’s fiancé and then wife. Previously she had been 6th on the call sheet, the actress with the small role looking to build contacts, the lead on the no-frills production. They times where she was definitely in the role of the star - her Reitman’s shoots, for example, there was contemporary evidence that she did not leave a positive impression on the people on set.

I think this is very relevant. Someone who had been hustling all her life and on the wrong side of the ‘velvet rope’ as someone so pertinently put it, suddenly found herself in a quite powerful position, in an ‘old money ‘ family in an alien culture. It sounds like the power went to her head and she thought that throwing her weight around and being demanding and superior was the right way to act. She got it all wrong. Harry seems to have got along with his staff before she came along. Instead of pulling her aside and telling her how things were supposed to be done, he just became demanding and superior himself. That doesn’t say much for his character at all. Any attempts by other members of the family to set her straight were probably perceived as racism in her mind.

Aspiringmatriarch · 01/10/2022 22:36

He's a tit. He cuts a rather forlorn figure though in that photo taken of him on his horse. You can see the grief in his face.

oakleaffy · 01/10/2022 22:36

jeffgoldblum · 01/10/2022 16:46

That was to @oakleaffy !

It {The 'Ellen' programme where MM clearly did a rehearsed sketch that was utterly pointless..What WAS the point of it?
It wasn't funny, someone 'Squatting' , parroting the words Ellen said via earpiece, drinking milk from a teated bottle.. Very silly.

Ellen looks like a beady bully, too.

These awful, shallow egos flying about.

oakleaffy · 01/10/2022 22:40

SilverLiningPlaybook · 01/10/2022 22:30

I think this is very relevant. Someone who had been hustling all her life and on the wrong side of the ‘velvet rope’ as someone so pertinently put it, suddenly found herself in a quite powerful position, in an ‘old money ‘ family in an alien culture. It sounds like the power went to her head and she thought that throwing her weight around and being demanding and superior was the right way to act. She got it all wrong. Harry seems to have got along with his staff before she came along. Instead of pulling her aside and telling her how things were supposed to be done, he just became demanding and superior himself. That doesn’t say much for his character at all. Any attempts by other members of the family to set her straight were probably perceived as racism in her mind.

This sounds a very likely scenario.

Aspiringmatriarch · 01/10/2022 22:40

suddenly found herself in a quite powerful position, in an ‘old money ‘ family in an alien culture. It sounds like the power went to her head and she thought that throwing her weight around and being demanding and superior was the right way to act.

I interpret things differently. I think she felt profoundly disimpowered. She was joining this venerable institution staffed by people who may well have viewed her as a temporary blow-in. There are lots of very polite ways to put someone in their place, we British are good at that.

SilverLiningPlaybook · 01/10/2022 22:42

Aspiringmatriarch · 01/10/2022 22:40

suddenly found herself in a quite powerful position, in an ‘old money ‘ family in an alien culture. It sounds like the power went to her head and she thought that throwing her weight around and being demanding and superior was the right way to act.

I interpret things differently. I think she felt profoundly disimpowered. She was joining this venerable institution staffed by people who may well have viewed her as a temporary blow-in. There are lots of very polite ways to put someone in their place, we British are good at that.

I doubt they would have seen her as a temporary blow in once she was engaged.

Ohnonevermind · 01/10/2022 22:43

At many moments when Meghan needed help and guidance, Harry was missing in action. A gentle word about cultural treatment of courtiers might have helped, instead he decided to give them a kicking too. It says far more about him and probably repressed anger at being managed ?

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