‘Courtiers’ 2

[RandomPenguinHouse]

The last thread filled up during a particularly chatty morning.

What is striking to me about the details about MM’s bullying in ‘Couriers’ is the hypocrisy.

I think that MM is a great speaker. I want to believe her when she talks about female empowerment. She seems compassionate.

Yet as this book shows, there’s an opposite (opposing?) side to her. As with many public figures who talk about kindness and empowerment.

I only have praise for the idea of encouraging children (and everyone actually) to take action when they see something that could be improved. I think Meghan could be effective by focusing on this type of encouragement of others.

I agree. Wasn't it a class project set by the teacher where they all wrote letters? I used to love on Blue Peter where children would be highlighted for things they'd achieved through their activism.

True, in light of the extracts, it now sounds like vacuous self serving virtue signalling

Yes MM’s letter was written as part of a class project. I saw the TV footage, it was cute.

I agree @HannaHanna about encouraging children to take action.

Based on that linked article it was a class project -watching the ads and identifying the language perhaps.

I think the act of writing the letter would be a more important lesson for a child than the outcome.

Sorry that was me and I posted very clumsily . I had only read excerpts from TB’s book and had a couple of reservations about it . Apologies for getting it wrong . VL’s book on the other hand is dynamite .

Thomas Markle - hmm they seemed to have a good relationship until Meghan met Harry. I too wander what happened.

With his comment about payback, while not nice I wander if cultural? I remember my MIL telling me that when dh & then BIL as professionals she said ‘we are sorted’ or words to that effect meaning my ILaws future was secured. The sons would never let th

I think they were alarmed, before we were, and hence the falling out. The advice to proceed with caution fell on deaf ears or was vehemently rejected and the RF were between a rock and a hard place. She went public with the relationship first too, upping the ante.

Sorry pressed send to soon & without editing

would take care of them in their old age.

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I only have praise for the idea of encouraging children (and everyone actually) to take action when they see something that could be improved. I think Meghan could be effective by focusing on this type of encouragement of others.

OK I'm going to totally derail here, but I recall an episode of You and Yours, Radio 4 consumer programme which featured a woman and her precocious 8 year old who had noticed a small error in the latest 1000 page Harry Potter book that escaped the proof reader's eye. The mother proudly explained how her daughter had written a letter of complaint to the publishers, claiming it spoilt her enjoyment of the book and demanding a full refund.

Honestly it gave me a massive rage which is why I still remember it. I just thought You awful, stupid woman, you're teaching your child to be a horrible person, a massive whinger going round complaining and feeling proud of it.

She's probably driving waitresses nuts in restaurants up and down the country by now.

I was brought up not to complain. We weren't allowed to complain. If I complained of feeling cold when out riding my pony my father threatened to sell said pony as soon as we got home.

I dare say there's a happy medium. I don't often complain these days but sometimes I'm moved to in some instances.

But generally it helps to treat people nicely and recognise that people are mostly working hard in difficult conditions to keep the heating on and food on the table.

Good manners and gratitude will always bring the best out in people.

Please don't teach children to be entitled whingers.

On the earlier thread (can't find it, owing to limitations of AS) there was an interesting post about how Meghan as a TV actress would say stuff and no-one would scrutinise it.

When she became higher profile, that changed - not least because of the things in the OW interview which were obviously wrong to a British audience, plus other stuff such as what the press would do on the school run which just plain ignored that this simply doesn't happen.

So someone went further back, and fact checked the letter writing and found it was not all it seemed (no change to ad campaign). Not even clear if the letter existed in the form described.

I think, if there are repeated examples of speaking inaccurately, not to mention dishing the dirt on family matters, then A listers will start giving them a wide berth. No-one wants their reputation or personal info caught u in that.

So I hope for their sakes there will be no more. Harry's book is a risk as well as an opportunity

This is what I cannot understand: I think all their complaints in the OW interview were easily proven not true and yet they keep lobbing out "truth bombs" which are easily proven not true. I wish someone would take them to task on this but I'm sure they'll just say it's their truth! 🙄

TM was partly to blame but where was Doria's influence - she seems relatively normal but then again, she keeps mostly quiet, so who knows? The TM-MM relationship was based on a secure bond and I am convinced that it is fixable but she does not have time on her side and despite knowing this, does not seem to be keen.

@EdithWeston I think this level of scrutiny is overkill for a simple childhood anecdote. The purpose of the anecdote is to show MM had been interested in equality for a long time, and to encourage others. I think that is a fair and true fact about her which can be used positively to help others. It doesn't harm anyone and does not benefit her unfairly, either, if much at all.

The letter exists, as it was in the video. But that is not the point for me. I think it is a good example of the pressure one can be put under when in the media spotlight. It's just so very petty and quite mean.

I agree with some of the criticisms of MM but this is delving into a territory that I think is ridiculous.

@HannaHanna

The P&G gamble been told so many times in a form that’s not true.

Why does she tell it, to encourage others or to reinforce her ‘specialness’.

If it was to encourage others, she could talk about the whole class being involved in a class project, but as it was to show how special she was, everyone else’s involvement was minimised

and the ending was faked

So many stories are untrue, none of them stand up to scrutiny. She lies about little things, she lies about big things, she lies when she doesn’t need to.

she doesn’t lie to protect others feelings or to get out of trouble , she lies to elevate her own standing and bring others down.

It would never have come to fact checking, had there not been so many distortions.

It is unfortunate as it shows that her accounts cannot be relied upon.

It would have been better to illustrate the point that she wished to make with something that was a fair and accurate reflection of an event. If she actually anticipated the need for strong foundations

Wasn't she saying this about herself before she'd ever met Harry? She'd perhaps not expected that she would ever experience that level of fame, or really grasp what goes along with it. Let alone that once you have a reputation for being careless of the truth, people stop giving credence to what you say.

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The P&G gamble been told so many times in a form that’s not true.
Why does she tell it, to encourage others or to reinforce her ‘specialness’.

I actually agree with HannaHanna on this - yes, Meghan is overegging this childhood incident because it neatly illustrates a point she wants to make (I’ve always had a social conscience/I’ve always been a feminist etc etc). It’s not teh worst thing in the world though

I think many of us will have fallback anecdotes that we trot out as needed. Mine is telling the story of how I ended up doing my current career, which comes up in job interviews, work away days, coaching/mentoring sessions, you name it. What doesn’t generally happen is that it gets repeated to the same audience, or externally scrutinised. And my anecdote isn’t exaggerated, as Meghan’s seems to have been - but we also don’t know at what stage she learned that her father had overegged the story himself!

In Meghan’s shoes I’d be retiring that anecdote now, though!

Wasn't she saying this about herself before she'd ever met Harry?

She used it when she gave her UN address, definitely, which was pre-Harry. I imagine it would have come up when she was pitching for roles with the organisations she’d wanted to work with too, but obviously that’s a guess on my part.

@Serenster

But she could have made her anecdote based on the truth, a class motivated her, their teacher encouraged them etc. rather than she alone had a eureka moment and how her father encouraged her by faking a reply.

I just don't see it this P&G story as worthy of scrutiny. So many people in the US public have been freer with facts and it is mostly ignored. Joe Biden has been notorious for this for decades and he is our POTUS.

I agree with this totally. Thomas Markle's latest wibblings about treating her like a princess and then previously saying things like 'it's time to take care of Daddy'

I have to admit that any sympathy I felt for the man shrivelled and died when he said that. In some ways I do sympathise with M, when it comes to her family - to be about to take such a huge leap into being known world wide while knowing your family just weren't up to how you wanted to present yourself must have given her some sleepless nights. That said I think she'd have done better to just brazen it out. It comes up repeatedly that one thing people struggle with is how false and contrived her behaviour and persona appears. If she'd just shrugged and smiled and invited them to the wedding I think people would have loved her for it or at least sympathised. We all have at least one or two excruciatingly awful family members.

Well, maybe Harry was right when he said "we're the family she's never had".
Interestingly, according to Tom Bower, Trevor Engelson said the same thing about his family when he married Meghan.