‘Courtiers’ 2

[RandomPenguinHouse]

The last thread filled up during a particularly chatty morning.

The Andrew umbrella story is brilliant. The pettiness and running to your mum says EVERYTHING about him we need to know. Between that and the ramming of gates with his car, he was loathsome from the start.

Yeah Andrew sounds like such a brat!

My Dad met Prince Charles about 20 years ago when he visited Weetabix, he was in quality control and he explained how the metal detectors worked, he said he came across as very interested and he really liked him, obviously they are trained to do this but it made my Dad's day.

I agree, but as with the comment from a previous poster about Meghan taking over the Heads Together event, it's difficult know how much is distorted or unfair, or what else was going on that may have been causing ructions. What was the incident that triggered the phone calls? It might have been something very serious. We just don't have that context. I'm not saying there were zero issues with their behaviour but it's difficult to say exactly what the dynamics were. Meghan married in, she wasn't exactly in an easy position. She won't have had much control over anything, really.

He was always a fool. I'm old enough to remember him young and I remember he was sent to visit Lockerbie to represent the queen. We didn't know the silly comments he made then but I remember watching as the car pulled up and he leapt out and and did this kind of silly jog over to those dealing with it all. He honestly looked quite excited by it all, and that he was involved. His whole demeanour was jarring and inappropriate.

Just learned on Twitter that Valentine Low was the journalist who referred to Archie as "frogspawn". The plot truly thickens!

Wow.

I am tempted to do another positive non-bashing thread, but the last time I did that, some of the Usual Suspects on this thread came on and did exactly what they are accusing us of in that they derailed the thread even though there were quite a few bashing threads they could have posted on.

There's no chance of this working unfortunately! I've observed the same thing.

I'm still shocked about the umbrella story

I'm not.

Andrew has form for boorish behaviour stretching back decades.
See spraying paint at reporters and smashing through security gates at Windsor for starters, move on to telling his security detail to 'fucking pick that up' when he dropped papers on the floor then see telling a further security detail who picked him up near Mummy's bedroom that BP was his home and he'd 'go where he fucking well liked' in it.

What was the incident that triggered the phone calls? It might have been something very serious.

Just so you know, there is nothing serious enough in a work context that justifies repeated phone calls while the employee is off duty not to resolve the issue but to berate them about it. Nothing.

I also think its worth remembering that Meghan had never been a “boss” before until she became Harry’s fiancé and then wife. Previously she had been 6th on the call sheet, the actress with the small role looking to build contacts, the lead on the no-frills production. They times where she was definitely in the role of the star - her Reitman’s shoots, for example, there was contemporary evidence that she did not leave a positive impression on the people on set.

Meghan had control over how she spoke to people, she had a ‘voice’ and ‘power’ over others and used both badly.

hopefully her staff in the states don’t mind her management style, but there has been some turnover there too, but that could easily be cultural/industry too

In regard to there being cultural differences in management styles, Jason Knauf (think that’s his name ) is American

The fact that she was always targeting one member at a time is classic bullying. Using that one to keep the others in line - mean girl strategy

My grandad always said treat people how you would like to be treated. Some of the Royals could no doubt learn the same lesson.

I hope we have more excerpts about Prince Andrew. How did he become so entitled?

Princess Anne doesn’t appear to be. Edward may have been in his youth but he’s matured.

Andrew hasn’t. Why? I understand why Harry doesn’t appear to have either due to his trauma. But his brother appears to have done.

Again why? It can’t be just be due to the Middletons. I hope courtiers touches on this.

I have to say I’m finding the attempts to derail really tiresome. I’d like to discuss the book if possible.

Obnoxious lard arse.

@SilverLiningPlaybook

Obnoxious lard arse.
Sorry I don't know why but this made me laugh! 🤣

Have you seen the video of Charles and the pen that’s doing the rounds? Made me smile.

Omg really? I was living in Glasgow at the time and the thought of that happening so close to us was awful. I know that it drove hardened Glasgow cops ( who’d been sent to help) to tears. If PA was actually gleeful about the thought of visiting, I cannot articulate how angry I feel.

It's hardly a normal work context though, is it?

I imagine as a salaried professional working for the Royal Family it would be expected that you be available if the situation required it. A serious incident might have needed to be dealt with quickly. Berated is the word used in the book, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the entirety of the conversations and again, we're hearing about it third hand with no detail about what the issue was. Presumably this source would have shared that with Valentine Low, but this was omitted.

How do you know she wasn't perceived well at the Reitman shoot? Is this a reliable source, someone on the record?

Do we know this from the extracts? Genuinely asking. I didn't pick up on it.

the quote from Jason Knauf ‘she always had one person in her sights’ it formed part of the bullying submission

Ah, ok. That was Knauf's perception then, fair enough. I don't think the people involved wanted to make a complaint though?

How do you know she wasn't perceived well at the Reitman shoot? Is this a reliable source, someone on the record?

The director posted on social media shortly afterwards that she was the meanest person they had ever worked with.

Tom Bower then wrote about it in Revenge, and has several sources from the shoot who have told him their recollections of the shoot. Including that Meghan required them to provide her with a pair of designer shoes to wear (seen in the advertisement) which she then took with her (i.e. stole) at the end of the shoot. She was later shown wearing the same shoes in other photoshoots, and when she posted a picture of her shoe closet on The Tig, they were among them.

@Aspiringmatriarch

When the book comes out we should have a good view of the whole situation but the extracts seem to support a number of people being affected by MM

I imagine as a salaried professional working for the Royal Family it would be expected that you be available if the situation required it. A serious incident might have needed to be dealt with quickly. Berated is the word used in the book, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the entirety of the conversations and again, we're hearing about it third hand with no detail about what the issue was. Presumably this source would have shared that with Valentine Low, but this was omitted.

I cam only epeat - harassing your (salaried, professional) staff out of hours and repeatedly berate them is never acceptable. Never. You are just making yourself sound ridiculous by claiming there’s a “maybe but” where this would ever be appropriate.

From my experience, how people behave under pressure and whether they take their stress out on others can be quite informative, particularly if they can pick and choose who is of status to receive or avoid that bad behaviour.

I think this is very true. Most people
can remain and calm and polite in normal environments - it’s how we behave when we are under stress and out of our comfort zone which indicates emotional resilience and character.

I have no doubt that such sudden and huge upheavals in MM life were very stressful. I also believe that the bar was set very low for poor behaviour by PH already which she may well have witnessed and this was just a toxic combination. I also think the courtiers have a lot to answer for for allow such behaviour to endure for so long.