‘Courtiers’ 2

[RandomPenguinHouse]

The last thread filled up during a particularly chatty morning.

Ahah! Found thread number two!

Thanks @RandomPenguinHouse ..I'll get mine taken down :)

Haha I almost started one too

Ah good - I was hoping we'd get a new thread!

I can understand not suing Tom Bower who seemed to rely on unnamed sources

Tom Bower named many of his sources and only published what could be independently verified. He said in interviews following publication of his book that he could have included lots more information, much of it very damning, but didn't because it couldn't be independently verified. I think the fact that H&M didn't sue him speaks volumes about the truth of the contents of his book.

Her childhood was a narc breeding ground. Her father telling her she was amazing, inventing the p&g letter to make her feel super special, getting her onto Nickelodeon to talk about how amazing she was.

I agree with this totally. Thomas Markle's latest wibblings about treating her like a princess and then previously saying things like 'it's time to take care of Daddy' made me think 'No wonder MM turned out like she did. No mum around and a dad like that'. He spoilt her rotten, he lied to her, he treated her completely differently to how he treated his older DC - she was his 'princess'. I think that says it all.

Haha!
It's clearly a popular topic.

Is there no way to merge threads?

i resent being silenced over this, it’s staggering they don’t realise they (I say they but I think it’s prob only singular) are the ones bullying - and they’re too emotionally invested - it’s a bit cringe.

Yes to the narc breeding ground. When they were getting married, and it was being reported how most of her family weren’t on speaking terms, I was surprised the royal family didn’t seem alarmed by that. If someone posted that on mumsnet, everyone would have been shouting red flag. To me it then seems they really did try giving her the benefit of the doubt.

There might be. I'd reported this one to be taken down, but @oakleaffy was kindly insisting hers be instead, so we'll see what happens. The most substantive comments are on this one it seems, the other is mostly oak and I having a to and fro about our double freds

I’d seen a thread about a door opener person who was saying that MM was lovely. I only scanned the first entry or two but has it been deleted ?

'' *Her childhood was a narc breeding ground. Her father telling her she was amazing, inventing the p&g letter to make her feel super special, getting her onto Nickelodeon to talk about how amazing she was.

I agree with this totally. Thomas Markle's latest wibblings about treating her like a princess and then previously saying things like 'it's time to take care of Daddy' made me think 'No wonder MM turned out like she did. No mum around and a dad like that'. He spoilt her rotten, he lied to her, he treated her completely differently to how he treated his older DC - she was his 'princess'. I think that says it all.''*

I felt a certain sympathy with Markle Snr until this treatment of his older children came out.

The ''It's now time to take care of Daddy'' was repellent to hear.

NO adult child should be made to feel they have to 'Repay' a parent for a lifestyle they had as children.

If Thomas wanted to spoil and splurge on Meghan, that was his look out, he shouldn't expect a return on his investment.

Meghan was clearly spoiled byThomas, wholly his own admission invested a lot of money and attention into only one of his children, and this was undoubtedly noticed by Meghan's half siblings.

The early Ciné footage Thomas Markle took of Meghan at many events shows her to be rather ''Full of herself'' bossy and flouncy, eye~rolling at him and it was clear even then that she was the one with 'Power' in that relationship.

Thomas shoehorning Meghan in to the Nickelodeon show ..That puts things into a different light...
Pushed by Daddy! Not done off her own bat at all.

It was a group of children all watching adverts for ''Messages''.

www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/heres-a-video-11-year-old-feminist-meghan-markle-taking-procter-gamble-1063357/

I can understand not suing Tom Bower who seemed to rely on unnamed sources

Did someone actually say (write) that on the last thread @maranella ?!

It doesn't make sense legally. In a defamation claim, you sue the publisher and the author for publishing untrue comments that could have a negative effect on the subject of the comments. It doesn't matter who the sources are, the responsibility is on the author and publisher not to make such comments. If the author and publisher can prove they verified the claims and took care to ensure they were true, then they can successfully defend a defamation action against them even if the sources aren't revealed in the book.

Edit..should read ''Thomas's own decision to splurge on Meghan'' {Predictive text?}

Yes it has. Because the poster, who was a 'special guest' on the first Courtiers thread, turned out to be a previously banned poster.

@RandomPenguinHouse

thanks for explaining

MM was blogging v positively about her father until v shortly before her engagement.

I've sometimes wondered what actually happened to have caused such a precipitate and decisive breach.

You're welcome.

The PBP was TheWheeledAvenger who was the poster on the last Courtiers thread who hilariously claimed to have received an advance copy of 'Courtiers'.

They claimed that the only evidence Valentine Low was providing was that MM made one snarky comment and occasionally sent 5am emails - funny that, given Meghan sending emails isn't even mentioned in the 3 excerpts about Meghan. And so many other accounts of unacceptable behaviour by Meghan was detailed in those excerpts.

I agree with you, @WinnieTheW0rm - there was a very warm Father's Day post, also gratitude for him taking her to ballet and tap, then out for a meal. That's as recently as 2016/7? Correct me if I'm wrong, but not that long before Harry.
However, it was for The Tig, and these Influencer Blogs are to make money and present a marketable persona, so who knows.

Yes, @RandomPenguinHouse, the comment was posted on p.19 by @Readinginthesun in response to a comment by @MrsMaxDeWinter, who also said (misleadingly), and I quote: "but they are not foolish enough to sue over books and stories based on "unnamed sources" eg Tom Bower's book." Tom Bower's book was full of people who went on the record to give anecdotes about MM's behaviour throughout her life. It is simply not true that it was full of unnamed sources.

Something else that was said earlier on the previous thread about Trevor Engelson, MM's first husband, that he never confirmed that she'd sent back the rings or talked publicly about their relationship. This actually doesn't surprise me. Who would want to be the guy that MM jilted and to give an interview, or write a book or go on TV to talk about being that? I'm sure he wants to move on with his life and not be known as 'that guy'. I wouldn't keep quiet, if it were me, out of a sense of loyalty, I'd keep quiet because it's utterly humiliating! He's a guy with a life and a career and a new wife - why on Earth would he rake over the coals of what, I would imagine, is a period of life he'd rather forget.

I think she was great in the video on Hollywood reporter. It doesn’t matter to me if she was inspired or pushed or assigned to write the letter. It doesn’t matter if he told her her letter was the reason for the change but it was just to boost her up and encourage her to be vocal. We need children to get the message that they can make a difference in the world around them.

I didn’t take her mentioning this at UN Women as “wow, I’m awesome” but as also encouraging people to teach children to speak because it can make an impact.

I am older than her but also lived with my Dad for a while. Though mostly I lived with my mom. The language around me assuming everyone lived with two parents and mom got to stay home take care of the house was hard on those of us that didn’t have that situation. Little Meg seemed to be feeling that also, when giving a forum to identify it and talk about it.

In US we are suffering a massive leadership vacuum at all levels now. It’s being filled by the wrong kind of people.

Just caught up on the last thread and thanks so much to the previous poster who gave the links to all 4 extracts of the book. And also to posters for a nuanced and balanced discussion. I find the situation interesting because in my family we have our own equivalent of H&M. My DB & GF see themselves in the same sort of mould; since they got together a couple of years back, they've gone fully into the sort of pop psychology that I see H&M espousing. DB & GF have Insta accounts and a podcast with followers in the low 1000s and they talk a lot about their terrible childhoods and how they suffered but have emerged stronger. [They are apparently Highly Sensitive People.] Only it's bollocks. None of the rest of us (me & siblings) recognise my DB's description of his childhood at all. DB & GF can start a fight in an empty room based on some slight they think has been offered them, and the last time they saw other family members, reduced my lovely SIL to tears.

As a result, I and the rest of my sibs have taken a massive step back. We don't go out of our way to spend time with them because we don't want to feature on their Insta or podcast. We also can't be arsed with the lies and inconsistencies they come out with about their behaviour. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted they have found something which they find adds meaning to their lives and helps them be happy, but I don't engage more than I have to. So when I read statements such as 'recollections may vary' from the Palace, I have a wry chuckle, because I recognise that scenario totally......

@HannaHanna

in all respect I don’t think MM is the right person to fill a leadership vacuum. We all saw how the US suffered under trump - someone with very similar personality traits to MM

@maranella ooh I do love a poster that can give a page reference and name check

I haven’t read Bower’s book but even if it was full of ‘unnamed sources’, that doesn’t mean the comments aren’t true and verified.

But if anything, you’re more likely to win if you sue something that relies on unnamed sources, so it’s illogical to say it would be foolish of MM to do that. Unless the pister(s) was implying it would be foolish because the unnamed source could be someone totally legit with sway like Obama or The Queen herself…

@RandomPenguinHouse on such a large thread it's helpful if people can refer back to the OP on the right page, if they wish to

I can't imagine that MM superfan @MrsMaxDeWinter has read Tom Bower's book either, which makes her comment so pointless. She's clearly picked up from some other superfan that it's full of unnamed sources, so now she trots it out at will, but it's wrong. It's actually a very well-sourced book.

Unless the pister(s) was implying it would be foolish because the unnamed source could be someone totally legit with sway like Obama or The Queen herself…

I think there are quite a few pisters on her to be honest! You'd have to be more definitive than that. 😂
But now the Queens dead, people can make up all sorts. Like, maybe, she reached across the ocean for someone to come save her from the wrong people surrounding her. She's open season now.

@ oakleaffy

interesting insight about Thomas M expecting something in return, and yes being bought up to expect relationships to be transactional in that way, explains a lot

That is not what I was suggesting, actually. Rather addressing the issue of the P&G letter, her father’s encouragement of her, her general demeanor in that video, and her mentioning the P&G letter at the UN women conference.

I only have praise for the idea of encouraging children (and everyone actually) to take action when they see something that could be improved. I think Meghan could be effective by focusing on this type of encouragement of others.