Page 38 | The Times

Rushingfool · 2022-09-24T12:00:24+00:00

Anyone else think The Times should not be printing extracts from this new book about Royal Courtiers at this time? Incredibly stupid given that H&M are trying to mend fences? I feel really quite cross for everyone involved - William's efforts to build bridges etc, all going to be in vain now. Very naughty.

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:19

And to clear up the counting thing once and for all:

I didn't set out to count Iris's posts, of course not
I was searching as I was sure from memory she was wrong in declaring she never posted on any other RF threads apart from specific MM ones.
So I searched, and Advanced Search told me how many posts there were by Iris in The Royals section, which I hadn't consciously expected it to do, I thought it would just give the posts and threads.
When Iris said that most of those were on this thread, I adjusted the date search categories to exclude this thread to check.

Anyway, Advanced Search is a tool of the site and it was handy here in showing a specific person's (Iris's) hypocrisy and lies.

Of course people are going to post more when they're too ill to do other things and are resting. Obviously no one has a problem with that.

Roussette · 27/09/2022 08:20

It is in my opinion stalkerish to monitor how many times a poster posts and where. Snog I don't care if you want to keep a tally of how many times I post here! If it satisfies you, do it! However, I can express an opinion that I find it a tad odd to do so.

Roussette · 27/09/2022 08:21

That was not in reply to your post just before mine Random. It was to Snog.

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:23

Roussette · 27/09/2022 08:21

That was not in reply to your post just before mine Random. It was to Snog.

I assumed as much Roussette but thanks for clarifying.

Snog · 27/09/2022 08:26

"Stalkerish" is inflammatory language surely Rousette?

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:27

Gilmorehill · 27/09/2022 07:13

It’s extraordinary how much time some people spend on these threads.
The Valentine Low book extracts have been fascinating to read. The people he names are professionals with careers. I am sure if those named felt their opinions
were being misrepresented in the book, they would speak out as they have professional reputations to maintain. M and H fans can argue on the internet all day long but this book has shone a light on their true characters.

The Valentine Low book will have been impeccably researched and libel-checked, and it is balanced in that it states what MM's lawyers said in response to certain allegations. Knowing how these things work, I don't think that MM will sue. I imagine her lawyers may have tried to stop publication of certain sections, but couldn't.

Snog · 27/09/2022 08:28

Obviously I don't keep a "tally" of how many posts you make...as I have mumsnet premium I just touch the filter button and it tells me

But I'm sure you know that.

Roussette · 27/09/2022 08:33

Snog · 27/09/2022 08:28

Obviously I don't keep a "tally" of how many posts you make...as I have mumsnet premium I just touch the filter button and it tells me

But I'm sure you know that.

Why do people say continually but I'm sure you know that.

Why?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't have MN premium, shock horror, I don't know about any filter button. I'm a dinosaur

DFOD · 27/09/2022 08:33

PinkTonic · 27/09/2022 08:05

I’ve been reading this thread for a couple of days as I think the Times excerpts and indeed the whole debate are interesting. It’s very clear that the rudeness, derailing, snark, playing the man not the ball etc. all comes from one side, and it’s not the M&H critical side. The defending is rabid, and almost appears coordinated. I genuinely couldn’t be arsed to count anyone’s posts but it’s struck me that the ultra prolific posters always seem to be conveniently ill in bed or off work bored with nothing better to do when one of these threads pops up. 🤔

To be fair they are coming under increasing daily pressure knowing that they are on the wrong side of history especially when POC, Nelson Mandela’s family and the liberal progressive press in the US are continuing to speaking out against H&M’s consistent unpalatable behaviour.

And now the couriers book / Times serialisation where another whole tranche of disparate and very senior people with integrity and their own longstanding reputations (ex-US diplomats etc) to protect are giving tactic approval to these claims.

I can imagine it’s very painful, exhausting and lonely - rabid is their only approach.

No wonder they have had to take to their beds.

Snog · 27/09/2022 08:38

"No wonder they have had to take to their beds"
ROFL

Liila · 27/09/2022 08:40

DFOD · 27/09/2022 08:33

To be fair they are coming under increasing daily pressure knowing that they are on the wrong side of history especially when POC, Nelson Mandela’s family and the liberal progressive press in the US are continuing to speaking out against H&M’s consistent unpalatable behaviour.

And now the couriers book / Times serialisation where another whole tranche of disparate and very senior people with integrity and their own longstanding reputations (ex-US diplomats etc) to protect are giving tactic approval to these claims.

I can imagine it’s very painful, exhausting and lonely - rabid is their only approach.

No wonder they have had to take to their beds.

Show quote history

Yes, flogging a dead horse. Some deserve a medal for their persistence and commitment.

How do supporters defend the accusations in Low's book? No doubt all lies and froth generated by the Mail and the evil Dan Wootton. When will the penny finally drop one wonders.

derxa · 27/09/2022 08:41

If the VL allegations are true then H&M's behaviour is indefensible. Totally.

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:43

I don't see how the VL allegations can't be true given VL's experience and credibility, and the reference to MM's lawyer and the balance he seems to have tried to achieve by also stating that the courtiers didn't handle certain things well.

Snog · 27/09/2022 08:45

Rousette

Snog
Obviously I don't keep a "tally" of how many posts you make...as I have mumsnet premium I just touch the filter button and it tells me

But I'm sure you know that.

Why do people say continually but I'm sure you know that.

Why?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't have MN premium, shock horror, I don't know about any filter button. I'm a dinosaur"

Since you were told in detail about this function only yesterday and on this very thread it was evident that you did know today.

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:46

Remember that VL broke the 'bullying' story years ago.

He's been a royal reporter for the Times, the paper on record for the UK, for 25 years (I think, from memory). He's a proper journalist, he's not a tabloid hack.

SilverLiningPlaybook · 27/09/2022 08:46

I think his book is very well written and researched so far.

derxa · 27/09/2022 08:48

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:43

I don't see how the VL allegations can't be true given VL's experience and credibility, and the reference to MM's lawyer and the balance he seems to have tried to achieve by also stating that the courtiers didn't handle certain things well.

I agree. What gets me is that these 'courtiers' seemed to be women. Their lives made a misery. Of course their lives don't matter. Only Meghan and Harry matter according to some on here.

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:50

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:46

Remember that VL broke the 'bullying' story years ago.

He's been a royal reporter for the Times, the paper on record for the UK, for 25 years (I think, from memory). He's a proper journalist, he's not a tabloid hack.

Quick clarification: one of the newspapers of record for the UK.

GoodbyeLilibet · 27/09/2022 08:50

Serenster · 26/09/2022 19:59

The city with the most tourists in Europe is Paris …. what they did to their monarchy hasn’t held them back….

I listened to really fascinating series of podcasts about the history of tourism recently, and it was pointing out that since the upper classes of the 17th and 18th centuries popularised the idea of the “Grand Tour”, visiting France and Italy (and, obviously, Paris and Rome) has been established as the pinnacle of sightseeing as a way of experiencing the pinnacle of Western and classical civilianisation. That bias has survived, and flourished both in Europe and now in the US now too. The US interest in travelling to France also draws on the close connections between France and the US as revolutionary states who threw off their royal leaders and set up as Republics in the same generation (with considerable cross-fertilisation).

That sounds interesting @Serenster , what is the podcast called?

DFOD · 27/09/2022 08:52

It's interesting that this thread nearly at its end has not dug into the actual book details etc because it has been derailed constantly - it’s the dead cat approach - with the aim that the actual content doesn’t see the light of day.………

“Never play chess with a pigeon.
The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then shits all over the board.
Then struts around like it won.”

The funky pigeons might well have won here though if we keep engaging with the rabid.

I have said this on previous threads - it’s best to identify and note the few distracters and talk over their heads and ignore their attempts to derail in order to have an informed intellect balanced adult discussion. A bit like when you are out having coffee and chat with your friends and one of the toddlers is being petulant and tantruming.

Serenster · 27/09/2022 08:52

RandomPenguinHouse · 27/09/2022 08:43

I don't see how the VL allegations can't be true given VL's experience and credibility, and the reference to MM's lawyer and the balance he seems to have tried to achieve by also stating that the courtiers didn't handle certain things well.

Plus the counterfactual that you’d have to believe is that a large number of employees, some of them very senior and with their own reputations to consider, got together back when they started to work for the Sussexes and constructed an entire plot to discredit Meghan and Harry. They accordingly co-ordinated their fictitious accounts, and set up a false document trail in the hope that that at some unspecified time in the future (turned out to be three whole years later) they could then make use of this. And some of them were prepared to resign from their jobs to make this whole plot look more convincing?

SallyLockheart · 27/09/2022 08:53

Can I creep back on here very quietly and say I didn't mean to stir up such a fuss on the thread with my early morning comment.

Roussette · 27/09/2022 08:54

DFOD · 27/09/2022 08:52

It's interesting that this thread nearly at its end has not dug into the actual book details etc because it has been derailed constantly - it’s the dead cat approach - with the aim that the actual content doesn’t see the light of day.………

“Never play chess with a pigeon.
The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then shits all over the board.
Then struts around like it won.”

The funky pigeons might well have won here though if we keep engaging with the rabid.

I have said this on previous threads - it’s best to identify and note the few distracters and talk over their heads and ignore their attempts to derail in order to have an informed intellect balanced adult discussion. A bit like when you are out having coffee and chat with your friends and one of the toddlers is being petulant and tantruming.

And you're not a derailer with your CONSTANT posts to me about one sentence that was totally irrelevant to this thread?

Look to yourself. It's all there in back and white.

derxa · 27/09/2022 08:54

Serenster · 27/09/2022 08:52

Plus the counterfactual that you’d have to believe is that a large number of employees, some of them very senior and with their own reputations to consider, got together back when they started to work for the Sussexes and constructed an entire plot to discredit Meghan and Harry. They accordingly co-ordinated their fictitious accounts, and set up a false document trail in the hope that that at some unspecified time in the future (turned out to be three whole years later) they could then make use of this. And some of them were prepared to resign from their jobs to make this whole plot look more convincing?

Show quote history

Good points. And we all know that whistle blowers often come out as the losers.

Roussette · 27/09/2022 08:55

SallyLockheart · 27/09/2022 08:53

Can I creep back on here very quietly and say I didn't mean to stir up such a fuss on the thread with my early morning comment.