The Times

[Rushingfool]

Anyone else think The Times should not be printing extracts from this new book about Royal Courtiers at this time? Incredibly stupid given that H&M are trying to mend fences? I feel really quite cross for everyone involved - William's efforts to build bridges etc, all going to be in vain now. Very naughty.

Here we go again. You see "hatred and anger" where there's actually only a discussion. It is possible just to think they've behaved badly and NOT have hate, you know? Which is my position.

Agreed.

There are some posters, on both sides, who go totally ott in their defence or criticism of Meghan.
It makes it very difficult to have a rational discussion because they just shout over everyone and don't even read posts properly.

I think most posters are willing to debate and discuss but they can't because of a handful of fanatics who dominate every thread.

“worked themselves up into all kinds of frenzies shouting how much they hated her”

:Checks self. No frothing at mouth. Hair smooth, clothes not rumpled. Room clean and tidy. Cat still calm. Definitely no evidence of frenzied shouting here: 😀

Now that’s covered, I’ll consider getting back to a mildly diverting debate of the ins and outs of what one might reasonably be concluded from the public actions of one of the most polarising figures of modern history, and their impact on a significant institution I already happened to know a great deal about.

This . How exactly would this work, would people be seconded to Montecito , what about their families, would they go too.,How would this work with the US authorities .

I don’t think you can blame Meghan for this , she had no experience and would have followed Harry’s lead . He of course has never lived in the real world, he has never had to even think about these things at all , all barriers have been swept away, often probably without him even knowing there was a barrier in the first place. He used to turn up at a local supermarket , never paid , the security always paid …. Of course there could be security reasons for this but it’s just an illustration . People have always ‘sorted’ things for him , now he’s got to deal with stuff himself and it must be a steep learning curve.

Diana died because she wasn’t wearing a seatbelt. I don’t know if CPOs force their principals to do that now or if they did it then but she wouldn’t have died if she had been wearing one.

I don’t see why people want the Sussexes titles removing - it makes no difference to anyone on the street. It does help them make money. Who cares if they make money? Yes they already had a lot if they had just been willing to live quietly and happily with their marriage and children but that doesn’t satisfy them so let them crack on with it. Telling nasty little stories about their family, insinuating stuff but no detail so it clouds everything individual trying to do their job for the Crown or betraying your siblings or father who value their privacy to make money is what I can do without.

Kid? 🤔 They live like young people trying out relationships but she was a middle aged adult from the start of the relationship. I'm sure she would be most flattered by being called a "kid" as she sees herself as a "young mother".

One of the most polarising figures in modern history?

Really. I think you ought to recheck yourself.

You can tell yourself you are having a ‘debate’ all you like but you are only fooling yourself. You clearly need to also check the definition of the word debate.

She died because the driver was drunk, speeding and crashed. She may not have survived the impact even with a seatbelt.

Royal protection have their own drivers, and security would not have allowed her not to wear a seatbelt.

I do wonder if Harry hasn’t conflated Diana’s death with her not being “protected” from the paps, whereas any security provided by RAVEC would be based on intelligence of a credible and current threat. Not based on Harry’s personal dislike for the press and paps who, whether you agree with what they do or not, are only doing their job. I also have a slight suspicion that the need for security on some occasions might be based on the desire of the perceived “importance” gained from having men in black suits and outriders with you.

Amen. Anyways I have to work, so I have no more time for this.

I hope everyone enjoys their bitching I mean discussion of MM.

Thank you for your concern pawkins but I am perfectly comfortable with everything I have written. 😀

I think when the Sussexes first moved to Canada cyclamenqueen they needed a team of six Met police officers with them, to cover two being on duty at all times, 24/7. They of course needed to be flown over and back after a few weeks on duty (as they lived in in the UK) and a new team flown out, with all their living expenses met while they were out there. There is clearly no way this is sustainable long term.

The Sussexes initial manifesto didn’t actually contemplate that this would be what happened, though. They wanted International Protected Person status, which would mean which ever country they were residing in would have to pick up the tab for them. This foundered because they didn’t meet the criteria for that, and neither the Canadian or US governments also weren’t keen.

One of the biggest tensions between PW and PH must be the fact that whenever PH screws up (which he does remarkably frequently) and applies the excuse about his mother, there is always the comparison with PW not screwing up and not using his mum as an excuse which somewhat negates his points.

On top of that, PW is married to a media-perfect consort with an impeccable record while his own wife comes with obvious baggage, damage and cannot help feeding the trolls to bursting in very many ways.

The two brothers are the biggest thorns in one another's sides and probably not for the first time in history!

I think people are so consumed that they genuinely do not see how they are being portrayed by the rest of the world

I see it and it's really embarrassing.

Posters like @Serenster always post sensibly - no 'frothing' that I have ever seen.
Ditto @Roussette, although she is firmly on the other side of the debate.

Cheers Blue 👍

So true. Also very sad. William must be devastated by all this.

IrisVersicolor it was her choice to not wear a seatbelt, she was an adult after all and we all have to take responsibility for our own health. It is widely accepted she would have survived the crash had she worn in the same way the bodyguard did.

I can imagine that any relationship with approved royal security would require H&M to follow instructions. Which could have been interesting.

I think the poster who described how Harry has never really had to think about anything to do with normal life hit the nail on the head. He, and by extension Meghan, probably thought everyone else would solve the challenges of their new lifestyle.

That's nice that they had people who cared about them. I am also happy to see none of those people are selling stories about them.

They would have been the ones making security decisions given that she was so paranoid by being followed I don’t think their say would have made any difference.

"She was taking on Prince Charles, and I think she’d have a much better chance of winning her case now, as attitudes have changed, nor would the case now merit only the tiny attention it got at the time."

> Anyone see the video of him shaking hands with public and skips or stops when he gets to the brown people? I am not sure how much attitudes have changed within the palace . . .

even the Guardian says when Elizabeth Burgess lost her case for racial discrimination at Highgrove points out the following things.

the then POW had a press secretary who was black
that Elizabeth Burgess had worked there 10 years, five of which were after the alleged remark by Fawcett
that she usually worked 15 hours instead of the 20 she was hired for.
she was unable to prove any of the allegations.

amp.theguardian.com/uk/2001/dec/08/race.monarchy

Prince Charles was never racist. He has been in mixed race relationships

Has he? Didn't know that!

He did like Sheila Ferguson of the Three Degrees of course 😂