The Times

[Rushingfool]

Anyone else think The Times should not be printing extracts from this new book about Royal Courtiers at this time? Incredibly stupid given that H&M are trying to mend fences? I feel really quite cross for everyone involved - William's efforts to build bridges etc, all going to be in vain now. Very naughty.

What a mean post. Meghan was hardly going to remain left on the shelf. You have no idea who was interested in her.

Well she came to the UK and was apparently on the hunt for a British man, so sounds like pickings were slim in Toronto!

I can see why you want to blank it out.

Does it ever occur to you that you could gain credibility by being realistic and admitting when things have been unacceptable ? By defending the unacceptable you lose all credibility so even when you are right about something, nobody agrees with you. If you were to say somethings they have done are OK and others not so much, then I could take your point of view seriously.

This !
Harry looks more miserable/ angry than ever

The title of the book is COURTIERS.

My post was referring to the the pp’s post that the “palace” handled M badly.

If that poster meant “courtiers” then palace was the wrong word as the palace includes the RF.

I suppose that if their relationship has happened even a single generation earlier, he would have been struck off for wanting to marry a divorcee and done a Duke of Windsor.
However, he had the benefit of knowing that it wasn't all fun and games for the DOW once he had cut ties and there was her desire to start modernizing the monarchy before she had even married into it - white dress, walking up the aisle by herself etc.

Wouldn't that definition also make Harry part of the “the palace”?

Excellent post.

There are children caught in the crossfire.
Cousins who may never meet up and play together

But it's clear that by 'palace' @DFOD meant courtiers because:
(1) she corrected Roussette for using 'RF' so clearly DFOD meant people who aren't the RF
(2) 'The Palace' has long been used as shorthand to mean palace staff rather than the Royal Family. Most of know it to mean the courtiers, that's how it's always been used in the press.

Ah, see, I liked the walking up the aisle by herself thing. How optimistic we all were then.

Does it ever occur to you that someone might have a different interpretation?

That what is unacceptable to you may not be to others; equally what is acceptable to you may not be to others?

I have no interest in whether you or the other RF/Meghan obsessives agree with me or not.

I also know he PW was having an affair. I also know that Kate did in fact make Megan cry and not the other way round. This is from a friend who works there and saw it first hand.

Nice try. She used the wrong word that’s ok.

The palace is not used as shorthand for anything but the palace.

When “the palace” is used in the press it refers to the whole institution. If the staff only is referred to usually “palace officials” is used.

I think what Meghan failed to get it the strange nuances of the relationship that the British public in general have with the monarchy. We like to gossip about them , moan about them , send them up etc but woe betide any outsider who dares to criticise them because in many eyes the Crown becomes a proxy for criticising the U.K. Neghams rejection of the monarchy feels to many like a rejection of the British people .

we expect them to allow us into their lives a bit, provide some glamour and majesty and pageantry , turn up on a wet weekday in February to open a fish factory In Grimsby etc and , in return, we turn a blind eye to their excesses and wealth.

it’s not celebrity but none of my highly educated US relatives can get this at all , they are baffled , they think it’s all for show and it’s a shock to find actually real. She must have felt like she’d walked through the wardrobe into Narnia.

I feel like the original plan of Harry getting married, doing some nice foreign tours with his wife and showing the Commonwealth has value, a few ribbon cuttings and shining his royal light on charities, having a house in Windsor near the Queen and the York sisters, perhaps a couple of children to play with all their cousins, the odd sojourn to old haunts in Sands End etc might have been quite nice. He might have enjoyed that.

The money Diana left him must have grown substantially since 1997 so I reckon £20m for his pocket money. At 4% dividends, around £500k a year private income after tax plus the Sovereign Grant for work representing the state. I don’t really get why it was so awful.

The MSM were actually FINALLY shutting up when they were in South Africa - neither of them put a foot wrong on that tour (until they did but prior to Tom Bradby they didn’t) - they brought Archie and shared his complete cuteness, there were no slightly out of touch £60k Dior dresses. They were both super engaged and their coverage in EVEN the Fail was very good. I thought they’d completely cracked it and their bad press days were over. Then Tom Bradby asked that fateful question and Bam! All back to Square One.

I hope he can find a nice pub in California. And settle down there truly.

I like your post. I agree with lots of it. I think true die-hard Royalist (I am not referring to you here necessarily) reallly really take H&M walking away so personally. It's like a rejection of them!

I just don't get it myself but I am not a Royalist.

Sure 🙄

Absolutely this !!

I know something from the 'horses mouth' but I would never mention it on a public forum, even if it is anonymous.

(Even so, I still NC, to add to this little agreement that poster above might not be wrong).

Arbesque why is that so hard for you to believe? Those that work there are normal people who have normal friends.

So you are saying he should have been raised better (for want of a better term) to know how to tackle some of these challenges?
Do we know who raised them - was it Camilla - there's another thread somewhere about Camilla living separately from Charles?

I do think he is actually very loving. When I have seen them together and him in general with other people - he appears to be a loving, well mannered and extremely down to earth person. Someone I know who worked with him said the same. We only see glimpses of their lives of course.

*I think what Meghan failed to get it the strange nuances of the relationship that the British public in general have with the monarchy. We like to gossip about them , moan about them , send them up etc but woe betide any outsider who dares to criticise them because in many eyes the Crown becomes a proxy for criticising the U.K. Neghams rejection of the monarchy feels to many like a rejection of the British people .

we expect them to allow us into their lives a bit, provide some glamour and majesty and pageantry , turn up on a wet weekday in February to open a fish factory In Grimsby etc and , in return, we turn a blind eye to their excesses and wealth.

it’s not celebrity but none of my highly educated US relatives can get this at all , they are baffled , they think it’s all for show and it’s a shock to find actually real. She must have felt like she’d walked through the wardrobe into Narnia*

I think that’s a really perceptive post @cyclamenqueen. It’s that ‘I hated my brother until my sister-in-law was mean to him’ atavistic defensiveness.

Mind you, it would not have been as critical decision for Harry as he was only the spare and he was apparently aware of his shelf life. He needed a way out which she offered an escape - not necessarily the right one for him.

She was never the one looking for freedom. She always kept her old PR. lawyer and agents on speed dial. She never sacrificed her ambitions, only identified a very creative way of realising them via a bunch of titled saddos in rainy old Britain.
She had a tough probationary period in a job she hated and never intended to stay in. She tore up the job description and quit on her own terms.

As for managing to mutually support one another, how can that really happen when their upbringings are literally worlds apart ? Neither has a genuinely useful understanding of the world/motivations/society of the other. She couldn't hack it in his world and he is not thriving in hers either - with all the clowning and staged scenes. It is unsustainable.

I bet he will still be looking for that elusive "Freedom" for a few more years. For now, he has replicated the gilded cage on a different continent and still breathes using the lungs of the institution he claims was suffocating him.

Because it's so easy to say 'oh I have a friend who knows everything blah blah'
I have a sibling who works in the media and I work for a well known person. Stuff you know through work or hear from someone confidentially through their work is not stuff you post idly on mumsnet.
You just don't.

I think the problem is that anyone can be a friend of Elvis on the internet.

@DuchessOfPort The money Diana left him must have grown substantially since 1997 so I reckon £20m for his pocket money. At 4% dividends, around £500k a year private income after tax plus the Sovereign Grant for work representing the state. I don’t really get why it was so awful.

-
It wasn't so awful until they were bullied by the press and possibly by their own family. They only chose to leave after the fact.

I do think if I were Meghan I would have never promised to work full time for the RF. If she had done her research about the UK she would have known it would have never worked. They should have stayed elsewhere and offered to do some work in the commonwealth for the RF.

Poor Harry probably though they could play happy families and raise his kids around his brother's.

Couscous** No I'm not suggesting that he should have been raised better, I'm suggesting that as a grown adult with several serious romantic relationships behind him and a clear knowledge that his wife was from a different country with a different culture he should have done far far more to help and support her. She was entering a centuries old institution which she could have had no way of understanding without his knowledge and experience. From the comments she has made either he didn't tell her or he did and she ignored it. My opinion is that it's far more likely that he didn't tell her or just expected her to understand.