The Times

[Rushingfool]

Anyone else think The Times should not be printing extracts from this new book about Royal Courtiers at this time? Incredibly stupid given that H&M are trying to mend fences? I feel really quite cross for everyone involved - William's efforts to build bridges etc, all going to be in vain now. Very naughty.

@Roussette but Beatrice wasn’t representing the state . I agree it’s not good but it’s not in anyway comparable

Apologies I thought you were talking about the tiara incident there.

I’m pleased that the facts of the staff bullying have come to light. How appalling that the staff had to put up and shut up by signing NDAs after their mental health had already been damaged by their treatment.

Yes she has. No outrage about that and no character assassination for a diamond necklace given to her via PA from a convicted Libyan drug dealer and gun smuggler who nevertheless attended Eugenie's wedding, and who brokered secret meetings between PA and Colonel Gaddafi.

I might be missing something here, but doesn’t the fact that we even know this mean it’s been publicly covered, and criticised? (Princess Beatrice isn’t a working royal, doesn’t head off abroad to formally represent the Queen and UK government, and doesn’t otherwise have or seek a high public profile, so I wouldn’t expect something she wears to be as controversial).

As I said above, Sophie got heavily just for being given a gift from Bahrain as a working royal. She’d be heavily criticised too if she’d actually worn it. If she wore them and attempted to conceal their provenance, then I can only imagine what the press would have said.

I know you love to say this wouldn’t happen to anyone else, but it obviously does.

The age thing gets a bit weird here sometimes.
Really, Meghan isn't a "young mother" and I'm not sure if a "grown OAP" is different from an ordinary OAP (also, it's not clear if Angela Levin is an OAP; not if she's 55-65 as mentioned).
But does any of that matter? If Angela Levin was younger, would it make her writing/opinions more or less problematic to people? If Meghan was a 40 year old woman with no children, would that make a difference?
Throwing in another -ism (ageism here) isn't helpful.

(Unless it's the usual MN standby: "She's over 55; have you considered dementia?".)

The public were told that the book was lies, fanciful.....
I too don't know what's true or not in the present situation with
Harry and Meghan.
William, Kate, Rose ?
It's like a posh soap opera but there are real people involved.

@Coucous A grown OAP like Angela bullying a young mother

What is a grown OAP ? Young mother ? Good grief , I know women who were grannies by Meghan’s age !

It's not been ascertained as 'facts', it's just tabloid rumours.

It was reported that Charles wanted to issue a point by point rebuttal of the accusations made in the OW interview but The Queen said no .
Well , Charles is now in charge so the gloves are off.

I do dislike the idea sometimes posted on here that's it's worse to bully a young mother than anyone else.

Young mothers (and Meghan is in her early 40s) have their vulnerabilities, but so does every other demographic. No one should be bullied. Including Meghan, staff at the Palace, young mothers, old mothers, non mothers, men, no one.

Would also like to add - two bullies together become emboldened and often accelerate the behaviour as the bystander is a bully too.

There is no doubt they wouldn’t dare to have spoken the the Queen or senior royals in that manner .

Anyone who excuses , deflects or justifies this behaviour is condoning this conduct.

Imagine if this was a member of your family in their early career - suffering anxiety , insomnia low mood - this is the result of workplace bullying

I agree with you, @LadyEloise1 - these are people's lives and they're turned into a soap opera. It must be very damaging.
Harry knew how hurtful Paul Burell's books were, so I'm surprised that he went down the OW route. It therefore just becomes a bit tit for tat (or various "truths"). All very unedifying, but I can't see how it's going to end amicably at this point.

But no legal threats or outraged statements.

Will Charles have needed to lift the NDAs so that the staff could talk, I wonder?

And could it be that it was to certain people only?

Well I look forward to H&M suing the Times @CatsandFish to disprove the numerous bullying allegations - after all they’re not frightened of litigation. Let’s have the whole sorry debacle examined by the courts shall we. I’m sure the employees would be happy with this outcome.

It's a bit more than that to be fair.

Sadly this has probably put paid to any idea of Harry's book being withdrawn and some kind of peace being negotiated.

It may be that some of the staff who were allegedly bullied are also mothers.

There are some reports
that he has asked to rewrite the final chapter in the light of the Queens death.

Some of the people quoted have apparently already lodged sworn statements with lawyers if needed and the Times lawyers have crawled over it and apparently M&H lawyers were given some stuff last year. They have not sued yet.

Will Charles have needed to lift the NDAs so that the staff could talk, I wonder?

There are plenty of legal authorities out there holding that it is an improper use of an NDA to “gag” an employee/former employee from speaking out against matters such as bullying and sexual harassment. They are designed to ensure confidential and private matters remain so, and are not to be used as a tool to cover up unlawful behaviour.

I am fairly sure that lawyers advising both the Palace and the Sussexes would have made it very clear to them that any attempt to sue on the basis that these disclosures were covered by the NDAs would be an absolutely terrible idea. By the same token, them employees could have sought advice, and would likely have been told that, given what they were talking about, the risk that they would be breaching their NDAs was low.

There is another argument that they could make too - that they all count as whistleblowers and so they are legally protected.

Good post.

There was a documentary and a recent story about a (Russian?) tiara. It was stated that controversial jewellery gifts are stored in a special place, under lock and key.

MM should not have been presented with controversial jewellery. She would have been presented with a tray of earrings (most likely designated to her), but she would not have necessarily asked too many questions, because the controversial ones should not have been included.

Sounds like a set up to me.

They did not have to consult H&M regarding the earring, but to simply remove them, if asked they can explain the reasons.

As for the Chopard line. I think that is what SC was told when she enquired. She was senior, why was she not told the correct origins.

If you look at the 2 articles, so far, there is a lot of dropping Sam Cohen in the middle of everything. She came from BP, before Edward Young's time and was trusted by the queen. As I said, she was about to resign anyway, but stayed on to help MM at the request of the queen, then later came back to negotiate the exit deal. My suspicion is that she is of that school before EY, where family members we're taken care of, hence her requests for pastoral care. She would never talk ofcourse, but I suspect that if she denied any wrongdoing by the Sussexes, it has to be counteracted now.

Off topic but not worthy of a thread of its own but was reading the extracts from Alan Rickman's diary in the Guardian

. He recounts a visit to Buckingham Palace reception to meet HMQ. After the line up a voice popped in his ear saying "The Duchess of Cambridge would like to meet you"

I know AR had great and varied career in film and on stage but am taken by the thought of Kate sobbing her heart out singing "the sun ain't gonna shine anymore" watching Truly Madly Deeply and very tickled by idea of her being a Die Hard aficionado going all "Yippeee Ki yay motherfucker" round BP

For anyone interested AR describes her as nice and chatty

do the people who have sold their stories to the times still work for the rf?

On which planet? Certainly not on earth - any medic can attest to this. Can a geriatrician and obstetrician please educate them.

Jason Knauf was promoted by K+W and there's another who allegedly sold stories to Wooton - he is married to Wooton's friend.