Removing E:R from Harry’s Uniform

[Zoom101]

I am certainly not one of H&M’s fans but I think that for someone to actually remove the ER initials from his military uniform for the vigil was beyond petty.

The decision was made to allow him to wear a military uniform, fine, Andrew was also given permission but to take the time and trouble to remove the Queen’s initials from the epaulettes was, I think, really childish. I know he has chosen to not be a working Royal but the initals were left on Andrew’s epaulettes so why were Harry’s removed?

Apart from anything else, this will just add grist to the mill of H&M’s litany of complaints but for once, I think they’d be justified in being upset by this.

Expect I’ll be flamed for this and there are many more important things going on in the world but I do think this was a snotty thing to do to Harry.

I was watching a documentary on Diana’s death which was actually very interesting a few weeks ago. I was surprised that no one had explained to the boys exactly what had happened to their mother. I think it was a police officer who eventually explained it to them. Quite shocking really. I wonder if they
felt very muddled about it all and got no real help from the family to understand the facts. Did anyone sit Harry down and explain that if his mother had worn a seatbelt she probably would have survived?

Growing up he was always the more popular and more laid back and the more integrated into school life with his peers than William.

I don’t believe it’s true he was more integrated into school life with his peers than William, or that he was more popular. I had a colleague whose son was at Eton with William and Harry and who also went to St Andrew at the same time as William.

William was popular, pretty low-key and certainly more academic than Harry. So even going by academics alone he was more integrated because he would have been more equal to his peers in terms of capability and higher education.

Harry famously had “help” to pass his Art A Level from his teacher. That sort of thing doesn’t endear you to your peers, even if not your fault.

Quite. Or the fact that the money committed to the funeral is way less than for fuel poverty, the cost of living crisis, or things that are - you know - about keeping hundreds of thousands of people alive.

But let's fill the newspapers with idiot stuff that people lap up so they don't think about the fact that we're shafting them all.

Schoolboy Harry was also known for drinking and smoking pot at Highgrove with his school friends while his father was away, and got banned from the local pub for repeatedly calling the French barman an “Effing Froggy” and fighting while drinking there after hours. All this lead to his father taking him to a alcohol and substance abuse support support to help him make better choices.

(I’m not saying that judgementally, by the way, teenage Harry was obviously having a really tough time coping with school and life after losing his mother. But making him out to be a teenage saint isn’t helpful I don’t think - he’s always been someone with issues as well as sterling qualities. I know that a lot of people have adopted him as a paragon of all the virtues since he’s left, as they see him as lifting the lid on an institution they have no time for, but I don’t think that’s realistic).

Being non academic in a highly academic and selective school with his history was a recipe for disaster. Kids who can’t cope with the curriculum often go off the rails or become the class clown.
He needed guidance, support and security. I’m not sure he got any of those things. His grandmother provided a constant amongst all the upheaval and emotional pain. Now she is gone, who has he got in the family? He’s estranged from his brother, the person who always had his back and knew him best. Meghan seems to magnify his emotional issues in an unhealthy way.

I don't suppose it occurred to you that the tabloids just make shit up entirely?

No, didn't think so. No wonder you're so confused.

If I read an article that says a royal expert believes then I discount it immediately, as they can make up anything. The Sunday Times article has a friend of Harry’s saying he was devastated to not be able to wear the ER signature (it’s a v small embroidered piece on top of the epaulette, you can barely see it ).

From the Times article - ‘before leaving for Westminster, Harry was considering wearing a morning suit to avoid the “humiliation”, a friend said, adding: “He is heartbroken. To remove his grandmother’s initials feels very intentional.” So there is a chance this friend was given permission by Harry to talk to the Times or a ‘friend’ is pot stirring, who knows. I just think it’s sad two brothers who once seemed close are now all but estranged.

But silver they were published. If he does something stupid it's all over the papers. His brother on OTOH is protected. I imagine that does annoy him.

Plus I don't think half the stuff about the uniforms - or most of what's reported he's been saying - has actually come from him.

I don't believe he is talking to the tabloids he despises.

I don't particularly buy into the monarchy stuff - I accept it's our culture but I'm not a royalist (or a republican!) but I'm quite eager for his book. I think it'll be an eye opener and will surprise people but not in the way they think.

Although I accept I may be wrong - but time will tell

Harry otoh sees everything through the lens of the belief the press killed his mum.

That's very true.

Which - imo - shows that he was failed by his family at a very young age after his mum died.

It's funny isn't it the optics.

Everyone always saw William as the more serious brother and it was assumed it was because of his future status.

Harry was much louder and much more open and fun. Never appeared a bully and was well liked.

However his friends were a very misogynistic group so I guess it wasn't a good look to be in that group. He never came across that way despite his friendship group though.

I just feel he knew he wasn't going to be king so he had much more freedom to be a rogue teen and didn't need to worry too much.

Misjudged imo. Because despite his lack of status within the line of succession he was still expected to behave as a royal is expected to behave. It's like he was expected to be two people but act as 1.

Spot on

I think a lot was covered up and his image was carefully cultivated by the Palace PR team. We are seeing the real man now. It isn’t an edifying sight.

I recall reading that even Diana said that Harry was spoilt and got away with a lot more than William because he was the spare. The early and very public death of his mother probably exacerbated some not very nice characteristics that he already had.

The Sunday Times ran the story - the Mail took it from them.

i wasn’t aware the Times has an axe to grind.

See I don't think it was covered up. We had all the photos of his idiotic choices of fancy dress published. He was a stupid teen like many were.

His choices will haunt him forever unlike Joe average from London because of who he is. Everything he does and says is judged on his past public images. I can understand why he wants to tell his story.

That doesn't make his decision of the last correct. But it doesn't make him unlike many others who have made mistakes.

The same way I hate how people are sacked because of stupid comments they made on SM 20 years previously that go unnoticed until someone decides to seek them out and drag them up.
Why do people do that?

Understandable if they still publicly hold those views. Pretty darn obvious it's to cause trouble if they don't, have matured and changed their stance.

I don't believe in judging someone's present from the ills of their past.

She also encouraged him to be naughty . She thought it was funny. I think she believed he was like her. That belief is deeply ingrained in him now I think. He sees himself as a renegade outsider who is ‘true to himself’ . Never mind the damage that might do to others. Meghan isn’t a check or balance on him. She encourages him in his unbalanced thinking and the two of them spur each other on. Whoever his therapist is, they aren’t doing a very good job.

Regarding Harry being a bully at school, I find that hard to believe. However the way he treated and spoke to Meghans father in texts shows another side to him.

I think that is harsh. The RF are just people, much like everyone else. I have a very, very stubborn 14 yo, who has incredibly set beliefs about certain things. The part of Harry, who believes this is still 12. I can well imagine his family is not equipped to change this opinion. They aren’t trained therapists. He has had a lot of therapy and still the belief seems to remain. Why would his family succeed, where professionals have failed?

@SilverLiningPlaybook in a way Harry is like his mother. William is a Windsor through and through, dutiful, discreet and very self aware. Harry is a Spencer, tempestuous, impulsive and incredibly damaged!

Even they admit they made mistakes after Diana's death. They said deciding to keep the boys away and follow her hearse publicly were bad calls.

The same way the queen acknowledged the days it took her to visit wales after the landslide that crushed the school was wrong.

It's really daft to me that people defend the RF over things they themselves have admitted getting wrong.

I don't think the issue is totally the RF fault of putting themselves on a pedestal.

It's the media and publics equal blame for deciding to ignore facts and create their own history to fit their own narratives.

I don't think Harry is the sharpest knife in the block from various things one reads , and Meghan seems to think marrying into the RF has given her a ticket to squillions. The things she & he have said which are factually untrue about their children's titles etc , got married before the actual marriage - it seems surprising - but maybe they just think they can get away with it.

I hope they are happy and can make a very nice life together . The Duke and Duchess of Windsor retained their titles , but were they respected , Also Duchess of York , who ( I think ) used her title and connections to earn money.

I do hope M&H do well but one tires of the complaints from Omid and "friends"

Am I alone in thinking they have been offered Olive branches here. - Let us hope it works and they get on better as a family.

Until then - tomorrow is not a day about them IMHO .

I’m imagining the musical, a dance off between the Windsors and the Spencers a la West Side Story but with lashings of British reserve,

I know that a lot of people have adopted him as a paragon of all the virtues since he’s left, as they see him as lifting the lid on an institution they have no time for, but I don’t think that’s realistic

It's interesting you should say that, @Serenster, because I'm not enamoured of H's close friendship with the Yorks, and his lack of 'lifting the lid' in that department.

Still all to play for though, eh? I live in hope that he and M will express a strong opinion on this appalling matter, given their work with VAWG organisations and their beliefs.

And no I don't give a fuck who he's friends with or close to. That's the whole point of integrity - you focus in on morals and ethics, not relatives and friends.

Interesting.

@MrsMaxDeWinter Calm down Meghan, we can all have our own opinions.

@itsgettingweird
idk if that was a response to my comment. I agree the RF got a lot wrong and admitted they messed up. It was a different time. For me, that doesn’t mean they failed the boys, rather they are human and hindsight is a glorious thing. An apology for being human in such circumstances is the most important thing.

Imo even when a parent gets everything ‘right’, they may well be getting it wrong because they’re failing in other ways eg smoothing life over doesn’t build resilience and often there is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t outcome.