How do you feel about the RF and monarchy?

[MarshaBradyo]

Has it changed, do you support more or less

I had a thought that the Queen’s passing might lessen it for me but opposite has happened. I appreciate the historical significance and process

Also if you’re part of Commonwealth (I’m Aus too so am interested) what’s the general vibe about monarchy v republic

I guess you could have some kind of nominations committee... you'd have to have some way of ensuring that you had a good cross section of people represented by that committee, but I'm sure it could be done somehow.

The trouble with elected heads of state is that anyone who has that kind of ambition is probably the wrong kind of person. I'd rather have a miserable royal than someone for whom it's a career move.

Beautifully articulated something I intuitively felt. Also the National Anthem doesn't allow for atheistic royalists to be accommodated. I don't believe in god either could god be substituted with;

"Those that still believe in this outdated , undemocratic,hierarchical system of power save our gracious King". And if there is no god who is doing the saving ?

God save our gracious King!
Long live our noble King!
God save the King!
Send him victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the King!

As Michael Jackson would have said "What about us?"

The Star-Spangled Banner

Oh, say can you see,
by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed
at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars,
through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched,
were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare,
the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night
that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled
banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free
and the home of the brave?

LlynTegid · Yesterday 19:12
I'm of the school of thought that the alternatives are likely to be worse, and appreciate some part of public life not having the political process. Tradition as well and heritage, and I believe there is some extra tourism from overseas as a result.

I agree. The anti-monarchist reasons seem to be, we have to/like to "grovel & fawn", and that it would be cheaper. The NHS would flourish and food banks be a thing of the past. Sadly, not so.
Look up the cost of a monarchy compared with costs of a President - even excluding the cost of an election every 5 or so years. And no income from tourists attracted to Royal occasions.

The ideas re selection are interesting but as you have people choosing you need robust systems to choose the nominations

People either get elected and then you have the whole public opinion and media involvement

I wanted to retain the monarchy due to lighter reasons of tradition and spectacle but this systematic issue has kind of reinforced this opinion more than anything

It’s quite a good debate though on how you’d get robustness instead - students could give it a good go in a debate situation for either side

vera99 · Today 07:32
Beautifully articulated something I intuitively felt. Also the National Anthem doesn't allow for atheistic royalists to be accommodated. I don't believe in god either could god be substituted with;
"Those that still believe in this outdated , undemocratic,hierarchical system of power save our gracious King". And if there is no god who is doing the saving ?

Just be thankful that the traditional 2nd verse has been scrubbed -
O Lord our God arise
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks
On Thee our hopes we fix
God save us all

Ah! them forrinners and their knavish tricks...

Apparently there was a 1790s American republican version celebrating the French Revolution. I might learn that by heart and sing it lustily if need be !

God save the Guillotine
Till England's King and Queen
Her power shall prove:
Till each appointed knob
Affords a clipping job
Let no vile halter rob
The Guillotine

vera99 · Today 10:54
Apparently there was a 1790s American republican version celebrating the French Revolution. I might learn that by heart and sing it lustily if need be !

God save the Guillotine
Till England's King and Queen
Her power shall prove:
Till each appointed knob
Affords a clipping job
Let no vile halter rob
The Guillotine

I hadn't heard that! Get your knitting ready, Madame Defarge...

I actually did a course on the French Revolution (a very long time ago) but I seem to remember it wasn't really a success. An Empire; a European War; several more monarchies; and 3 (or was it 4?) Republics. But never mind, after 200 years they'd got it sorted.

@MarshaBradyo
Be aware that the constant questioning and stated need for a 'perfect' elected official is used as a way to maintain the status quo

• a status quo which is busy defending Andrew / Mountbatten etc

The point is to have a vote and that those officials can be voted out
Priceless

I'm a member of the national trust , I know a fair bit about history and architecture , art , religion and literature but I just read this on Twitter and never a truer word spoken :

' tradition is just peer pressure from dead people '

The UK is sinking into a more of corruption and poverty and failing services . The 'royals ' sit on top of that and reinforce it .

Change is needed in order to reinvigorate our society .

It’s just a conversation Novella

You are welcome to disagree. You can vote obviously but pp wanted a non political system which is difficult to create as you need a committee to select - so who is it that has that power and why?

If you have answers rather than sneering go for it otherwise back to debate class for you.

Convince rather than get defensive and sneery - you can do better I’m sure

And no income from tourists attracted to Royal occasions

Why do you think this?

How come Bastille Day in Paris has huge processions, march past, cannons, fly pasts, cavalry, it's broadcast live on TV and attracts huge crowds.

It's just a myth that no one would come to UK if we didn't have a particular family in residence in a castle waving out the window at them 🤣

How come Bastille Day in Paris has huge processions, march past, cannons, fly pasts, cavalry, it's broadcast live on TV and attracts huge crowds. Yuk. Little Napoleon waving at the head of it. Sounds like Putin's Russia.

I totally agree.

I'm a republican & always will be.
The existence of a "royal family" gives credence to the idea that some "blood" is better than other.

A very short hop to the justification of racism & ethnic nationalism

I love This Land is Your Land, alternative United States National Anthem.

Woody Guthrie was a socialist and an activist and wrote this song as an alternative national anthem celebrating ordinary people rather than the rich and elite.

And I love all those defending the current Royal Family on the basis of how difficult it would be to select a President.

So instead - lets have a system where a random family member is Head of State and it passes down to their eldest born. Does not matter if the eldest born is suited to the job, or even their personal character. If they are friends with paedophiles we will just minimise this. All that matters is they are born next. Yep such a great system without any potential flaws at all!

beachcitygirl · Today 11:24
The existence of a "royal family" gives credence to the idea that some "blood" is better than other.

Oh, I think that's taking it wildly too far. I don't consider Charles blood is "better" than mine in any way - even tho' I'm likely to several millionth in line to the throne.

Didn't the ancient Greeks rule that anyone who seeks to be elected leader should, for that very reason, be disqualified from standing?

I’m not hearing anyone come up with a good system so far. But happy for people to give it a go.

It seems Attenborough is the go to on these threads because he has a nice voice and does world / animal programmes

Yeh I’m not on board with that either

I don’t think the dc should be held up as they are either tbh

@MarshaBradyo There are lots of other countries with Presidents with slightly different systems. Why not research those and pick the one you prefer?

I did a quick google and I’m not seeing anything close to what people are after so my preference hasn’t changed.

I’m not arguing for change though, what’s your preference?

@MarshaBradyo I want a selection process where it chooses someone suitable for the job with the necessary skills. Top level appointments are made all the time, it is not difficult to do. If there was an election process then I would want it tied to government elections to minimise cost, and for candidates to be pre selected through a top level recruitment process. This would mean only people already suitable would be able to stand for election.
But if anyone has a better system that too is fine.
You are acting as if this is rocket science when loads of countries already have Presidents. Some have good systems, some don't. Its easy to learn from other countries.

There's quite a few other parents doing the same thing re. School..

Which country do you prefer though?

I’m happy to look at the one you think is best