Prince Archie & Princess Lilibet?

[susan12345678]

Surely not?

I look forward to Harry's announcement explaining that they will decline prince and princess titles for their DC, in keeping with their decision to stand down as senior royals and live private lives in the US.

Anything less under the circumstances would be rank hypocrisy

@thebellagio such a wasted opportunity v sad.

Cheers, no problem!

I have never heard it that much but regardless of how well known it is, it's seeing it written down that will make it obvious to children that 'dumb' is the start of the name. And as I said, would be much more of an issue in America where people won't have heard of Dumbarton. That would be part of my thought process if I knew I was likely to bring up my child in the US for at least some of the time.

Very grabby - she's not even in the ground yet. They shouldn't even have announced this until next month. People saying congratulation to them - seems so odd to me.

I don't think they needed to change the titles so quickly but it's moot now because that's been superceded by Charles giving the title of Prince of Wales.

I've got to say, this is all moving so fast, I'm struggling to take it all in. But in a way it's great how everything moves on so smoothly.

Definitely not grabby. t's protocol. It had already been announced by Buckingham Palace and there's procedures that would have been approved by the Queen.

You can't grab a title like that. It's not like it was up for grabs in the Duchy of Cornwall's shop and William grabbed it off the shelf, elbowing Harry, Zara and Beatrice out of the way and put it in his basket before any of the other royals could get their grubby mitts on it.

They shouldn't even have announced this until next month.

Shouldn't they @darmaka ? According to whom?

Are you suggesting the Cambridges have no control or even knowledge of what their own staff do in their name? That their staff are rogue and make their own decisions over issues related to London Bridge/Operation Unicorn protocol without permission or Will and Kate's knowledge? That makes Will and Kate look awful, like they're too lazy and uninvolved to oversee their own PR team.

PP are acting like the Queen's death was some shocking sudden thing that's left them scrambling to figure out the protocol. NO. Read the 'London Bridge' article. Every possible miniscule detail around the Queen's death has been planned out for decades and a team sit down regularly to update it and work on it and do practice runs. Literally the tiniest detail of everything from the carpet in Westminster Abbey to where foreign heads of state will stay is planned for. The plans include every facet of media and entertainment, even little details like, if her death is announced before 4pm then performances at the Royal National Theatre will be cancelled, if the death is announced after 4pm performances are not cancelled. For decades the BBC has kept two separate playlists on standby to play if the Queen is unwell to avoid the possibility of having to interrupt an inappropriate song with the news of her death. We know that the written protocol includes Internet protocol since the article states that the minute the Queen's death is announced, the entire BP website is to be taken down and replaced with a single memorial page. It's unfathomable these pages and pages of protocols don't include social media and updating royal's new titles.

These things do not happen by accident, or because a KP staffer thought they'd be useful. These decisions would have been made a long time ago. Charles' team made the protocol decision to wait and that's a pretty major title change!

The purpose of a constitutional monarchy is so that these changes take place seamlessly. Therefore it’s not grabby. It’s the very essence of the constitution working as it should

Harry and Meghan would have been perfect for taking on the work of the Princes Trust now that Charles is king.

yes

Ah but according to @darmaka there should be at least a month's pause.

And darmaka knows best, so fuck all the years of planning and the authorisation Operation London Bridge which would have included such website changes. Screw that the late Queen and the current King Charles would have approved it... Darmaka didn't.

But it's about appearance. There's a reason Charles' team made a decision not to update his website and social media profiles. This stuff is supposed to happen discreetly and behind the scenes.

The changes in title are automatic and happen the moment the Queen passes. That's why giving the impression you've immediately leapt onto Twitter before your gran's body is even cold to let everyone know you've got a better title is a PR misfire from Will and Kate's team.

Charles made it clear in his speech he sees Meghan and Harry as a very much separate part of the family and underlined the fact they are building their own life overseas. It would seem very odd if they enforced their children's Prince/ Princess titles considering the pain they associate with the family.

They don't use their HRH titles themselves because they were officially asked not to, that's when they issued their statement saying that there was no "jurisdiction" over the word royal.

Yes there's a reason Charles' team made a decision not to update his website and social media profiles... because it's not an easy update. It's not changing a few words. He is likely to be covered by different social media accounts now. And the ones he'll be covered by were covering the Queen, so they do have to have a transition. Not the case with Kensington Royals.Also, as I said earlier, the Royal Family website DID make changes yesterday evening to Charles's and Camilla's profiles. Show me what changes Charles's socials haven't made?

You're blithely ignoring the facts and how this works professionally as well as constitutionally.

That's why giving the impression you've immediately leapt onto Twitter before your gran's body is even cold to let everyone know you've got a better title is a PR misfire from Will and Kate's team.

Why would anyone in America know that Cornwall is a better title than Cambridge? Even most people in the UK wouldn't know. In fact it's only now that I'm twigging why Camilla was the Duchess of Cornwall. 🤦

You're projecting massively. Charles' speech was warm and loving towards Harry and Meghan. I don't know what's wrong with people that they choose to pretend "I want to express my love for Harry and Meghan" is secretly a dig.

Legally Harry and Meghan could start using their HRHs tomorrow and only new Letters Patent could stop them. They may have been officially asked, they may not, who knows, but they voluntarily decided to stop.

Thanks. two hours after Queen passed does sound quick.

@Andylion “two hours after the Queen’s death was announced” is not necessarily “two hours after the Queen died”.

I knew via my profession that the Queen had died at around 3:30pm. 3 hours before the announcement. Certain people in certain jobs had to know to have time to prepare. It doesn’t mean all of our colleagues did. Of course the POW and his key people would have known earlier than that. I was informed the time of death was before or around 12pm.

Anyone with some nouse watching the BBC broadcast could tell she was likely to have died at least several hours before the announcement.

So it didn’t seem quick to me. And I don’t really care what American online publications who are creating division for clicks think.

In the Middle Ages it was essential to move at lightening speed to announce the new title holders - before your enemies grabbed them from you.

Now of course its just a tradition. But royalty(and a lot of the people) love tradition

I was informed the time of death was before or around 12pm

Yes, a friend's husband was informed at around 12pm that she had died.

I don't know what's wrong with people that they choose to pretend "I want to express my love for Harry and Meghan" is secretly a dig

It's not a dig as such, and I'm sure KC does love Harry - but that part of his statement came across to me (and many others too, l suspect) as a clear line drawn in the sand.

There was no reference to their titles and he emphasised their new lives overseas - very much outside of the royal apparatus.

Interesting viewpoint from a blogger who is a lawyer
here

I think the changing of titles on social media would have been decided ages ago. The Queen was elderly - her death and what happens afterwards would have been planned by courtiers a long time ago and constantly updated with changes in social media platforms etc.

It isn't crass unless you find the sentiment of 'the king is dead, long live the king' crass.

I think Charles' speech was perfect. Whatever he may feel about Harry and Meghan's actions - Harry is still his son and I am sure loves him very much.

the Institute for Race Relations states that the effects of are still being felt

The 1981 Criminal Attempts Act, which repealed sus, was succeeded in 1984 by the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE), which in effect reinstated it as stop and search. The proviso of ‘reasonable suspicion’ was ineffectual. Stop and search was expanded later in Section 60 of the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act, which introduced targeted emergency powers. In 1999, Macpherson recommended a series of regulatory mechanisms but did not fundamentally question the practice itself. A year later, Section 44 of the Terrorism Act legitimated racially profiled stop and searches. And although it was ruled illegal on human rights grounds in 2010, Section 60 continues to be rolled out

denying that people of colour are more likely to be stopped and searched goes against their lived experience.

you don’t like Dumbarton because of “dumb” but are fine with “sus” and “sex”. Fair enough. I obviously disagree. But dont deny that very real impact Sus had on many people of colour.

Such a missed opportunity for the RF and the country in general. They are much loved and more popular in comparison to any others. Harry's love for other humans just shines through naturally - he doesn't have to try. It's such a shame they were pushed out.