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With another podcast set for release this week, The Sunday Times has a piece addressing Harry and Meghan's apparent strategy:

Courtiers are bemused by the Sussexes’ determination to rage against the past. As Davis observed of Meghan in her article: “She has taken a hardship and turned it into content.” A source who knows the Sussexes questions why Meghan “is constantly looking back at how awful it was to briefly be a royal. What does success look like, is it a number in the bank? Is it that they’ve killed off the monarchy?” Another Palace source says: “Ultimately they are bashing the institution that has put them in the position they’re in, the longevity of that strategy is not sustainable.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/harry-and-meghan-keep-bashing-the-monarchy-because-its-good-business-royals-believe-nq29p6g7z

I'm curious about their strategy, too. They seem to think that criticizing the royal makes them look better - it really doesn't. Instead, it just makes them look petty and increasingly irrelevant.

She did sound cross.

I listened to a short story clip to hear. I don't think she was cross but she wasn't impressed and seemed defensively surprised.
I found that odd as it seemed like upto that point she was calling Mariah a diva and despite that she took Mariah saying she too can be a diva as negative.

I think MM is still flummoxed that announcing their plans before clearing them with HMQ did not turn out to be the power play she expected.

Because you don’t tell your boss, if they are an institution like HMQ, how things are going to be. You don’t shock them and expect submission. ask and discuss. You work together to craft an appropriate message. Any other way gets you stripped of the privileges they conveyed upon you.

So now MM will suggest it’s purely because she’s special (read, being treated unfairly due to being a woc) that she can’t have what exactly what she wants. When no one else has ever done such a thing and ended up with the kind of life they think they are due.

I also think she gets the blame for this because we never saw Harry step out of line with respect to his grandmother HMQ in any way prior to meeting MM. It seems conceivable that he wanted to leave, but not believable that the way they went about it, posting it on a website, was the brainchild of a Prince who always did exactly as told before then.

And as an American I will say, I find all of their antics very, very American. And that annoys the crap out of me.

I love the way Meghan decided to clarify what Mariah meant with her comment even though Mariah had already given an example.
heaven forbid that anyone should be left with the impression that Meghan has dump behaved like a diva. To be clear Meghan clarified that she only ever dressed like one 🤭🤭🤭🤭

I think she sounded slightly hurt and defensive and her tone was chillier than it had been plus the additional explanation about being "stopped in her tracks" at being described that way. It was clear she was stung no matter how much some want to pretend she wasn't. Why make such efforts to clarify exactly what Mariah's meaning was? Ensuring everyone listening was crystal clear that she, Meghan, was only a diva in how she looked, making Mariah's friendly ribbing just on the right side of ok. That comment would have been laughed off and never even mentioned again except as a kind of affectionate bonding moment, by almost any other celebrity.

@J0y I meant to say agree with you, was just adding to your comment.

It’s the same with the allegation that a member of the media used the n word when referring to Archie and lilibet . Name and shame !

I have mentioned before how some criticism of Meghan can be viewed as racist or sexist. I have also discussed how many of you are aware of an undercurrent of sexism even when the men who you feel might be aren’t calling women overt slurs or but notice a turn of phrase or something such like. I have mentioned people of colour have a similar sense when it comes to racism.

Now onto the N word with an anecdote. About 4 years ago my boss was a charismatic effective man who rescued a department in significant difficulty. I was new in role and noticed first of his sexism - over the top sharing about his divorce and details about his wife he had no business sharing, close to the line sexual banter and flirting with junior staff. One day he then also said the n word - in a full room, in public, as a joke but it was still said. Not one person said anything - they also to they’re credit didn’t laugh but they didn’t say or do anything. I also did not say anything and in that moment, in that room when he wasn’t censured I knew very well that if I said something it wouldn’t be well received and I know that he wouldn’t have been fired. Suspended but not fired. And although we all know workplaces say that punitive measures do not happen to reporters there have been enough incidents in my line of work to know that my head would have been on the line.

I tell this story to remind people that there may be very real reasons for people not to name and shame - mine was pragmatism. It serves no one to minimise her reported experience in your interest in defending the RF and demand that she say who. Perhaps you should believe the POC on the thread who have said that some (not.all) coverage of Meghan can be prejudiced and by extension the people writing this coverage can be assumed to hold some prejudices.

Many peoples repeated demands to Meghan to prove racism is in line with many men demanding women to prove that their banter is sexist. It’s really demoralising.

Do any of the super supporters think this is a bit odd? Imagine being this precious and self absorbed. Mariah sounds like a bloody hoot.

Skullbaby that's just an awful thing to experience, unbelievable to think that some people hopefully a minority still behave like that.

can I ask you a question and I would like to be clear it's a question not an attempt to be argumentative or insulting or anything negative.
How would you have felt or how do you think your colleagues in that room would've felt if someone present revealed what had been said but revealed the exact group of people involved? Would you consider it unfair that in some people's minds you could be the offender ? Or that any other one of your colleagues could be assumed to be a racist?

Hmm . I can ( probably ) understand why H and M didn’t want to publicly name a family member who allegedly made a racist comment but a member of the press ? No one should go around making bombshell allegations like that and not expect to be challenged.
I apologise if I am wrong but you seem to be suggesting that a POC should be believed without providing evidence ?
It was a very definite allegation .
Banter is more subjective in my opinion .

Skullbabe that is wretched. I’m white and American live in the US, and have never heard that word used at work. I’d hit the roof. But have heard it in the same context, “joking” or retelling a joke. Often lots of rolled eyes but no one saying anything much.

I’m not aware of how common the word is in UK.

It’s the drip feed I find weird. Why is this just now being mentioned. I think it was worth explaining on the OW interview.

I was also curious to know if she really was not allowed to send her own mother or best friend a photo whenever she liked.

I find Meghan to be very Californian and very American in her approach, her mannerisms and her speech. I believe she can sometimes grate on British ears with her earnestness and gushiness. I have listened to the podcast sections again and I provided a transcript in previous threads.

Both Meghan and Mariah were laughing - and Meghan said she didn’t see herself as a diva (“if you could see me right now”) and Mariah was like sotto “I know ……….it’s the look, it’s the look” and went on to say that if Meaghan wasn’t as beautiful and well dressed she wouldn’t get that comment applied.

Meghan went on to say she was taken aback in the postscript by the word diva being applied to her because although they had spent some time discussing how diva has become negative and how Mariah was reclaiming it - until it was applied to her - she went back to all the negative and thought Mariah had read something about her which prompted this word - and it had to take Mariah to bring her back to the positivity. And she said it was interesting to see what labels can do and how they can hold you back. Which an excellent reflective exercise on herself (what I did, what I felt, what I will take from this). So this is what I heard and interpreted from the conversation and post script.

I have said that Meghan really needs to decide what she wants from this podcast - the structure is muddled because it’s a mix of interview and exploration of stereotypes. And because the narrative voice is all over the place the episodes don’t gel. I hope they get better in this regard - her next interview will be with Mindy Kaling which should be fun.

I find the idea that Meghan had no idea what she was getting into quite hard to believe. Her school friend said she had the Morton book about Diana. Meghan herself wrote in the Tig about Kate and her wedding. She told her agent she had done a deep internet dive on Harry. There is no shortage of information out there on the expectations on the family.she had access to Harry's whole team.
It was William who suggested not rushing into everything and who was clearly right.

Thank you TarasChoc

I’m sure that everyone in that room would say that they are not racist but are they anti racist (which is harder) - no. Would I ever feel safe as a minority with them? No. They observed harm and did nothing - similar to witnessing a crime and shielding the perpetrators - in the case of a crime the police would absolutely be justified in considering all the witnesses as the perpetrator until they received evidence to the contrary. Would I accept that even I could be accused of being the one who said a racial slur? Absolutely. Because I didn’t say or do anything to protect myself but it would be perfectly valid to suspect that even I might have said it.

This is the important aspect of living social justice - it’s speaking up when you can.

@skullbabe

That is horrific and even worse that no one said a word.

I appreciate all of your input on this topic and it does make me dig deeper and think about MM’s experience as a woman and POC and even an American marrying into the RF and living abroad. I’m also American and I think much of the cultural nuance is lost in these conversations.

No American reading about Diana would or COULD ever understand that the job of a marrying in royal woman is to put up, shut up, enjoy the jewels, admire the sausage factory, cut the ribbons of a brand new refinery in the back of beyond and take the flack from the media about being too fat or too thin.

You get your children’s school fees paid and your money managed well in exchange and an attic room at Sandringham at Christmas every other year if you’re lucky.

Skullbaby. I’m sorry for what you have experienced but it doesn’t mean Meghan can use race as a weapon against other people in public at a time that suits her without giving that person - if such a comment was made , given that we know Meghan’s truths aren’t always the TRUTH - the ability to reply to such accusations. If Meghan was capable of correcting a group of Harry’s friends about a load of political/social issues in first meeting them - per the Tom Bower book - she was clearly not a shrinking violet on such issues and the impression given was that she stood her ground even if it made her unpopular with people who had never met her before

the Uk is not a perfect place but I would put the chance of a journalist saying the n-word about her child in an official capacity about as likely as political commentators and journalists using the n-word and the p-word about members of the current cabinet.

In a tv documentary, Harry and Meghan :an an African journey, Meghan is reported as saying

When I first met my now-husband, my friends were really happy because I was so happy. But my British friends said to me, 'I'm sure he's great but you shouldn't do it, because the British tabloids will destroy your life'," Meghan said.

"And I very naïvely... I'm American, we don't have that there... [said], 'What are you talking about? That doesn't make any sense...' I didn't get it," the Duchess of Sussex confessed

is it possible that Harry might have mentioned in passing before they married that he held the British media responsible for hounding his mother to her death? And that together with her friends comments would only take 5 minutes on Google to unearth media reports on the duchess of pork, waitey Katie etc.

so Gertrude, an American might not fully appreciate all the issues but 5 minutes on Google and then reading court circulars on royal visits would give a good introduction.

those comments give the impression Meghan is naive or stupid - she is neither

The airline also stated that William and Kate were completely unaware of the switch and had not asked for special treatment, aside from their security request to board last/leave first
Anyway, as this happened mere days after Meghan and Harry had been criticised by the press for taking a lot of private jet flights in a short period of time, Cambridge hate-sites posited that this was all a plot by William and Kate to show up their brother and sister in law (and that it made a mockery of their eco-credentials as it involved empty planes being flown around). That is the line that has been taken by posters on these threads also, despite no actual evidence for this interpretation

So, in short - the one story cited as an example of William's 'briefing against' H&M seems to demonstrate nothing of the sort. If anything, it suggests the reverse, as the FlyBe incident was widely misused by the Sussex's supporters to discredit William& Kate? Interesting.

The thing is you can read about it but you can be naive too. I have been astonished by how wide eyed she was and I believe she really was - the difference between myself and many people is I don’t use it to castigate her. I’ve explained that it was entirely possible to really not know just who the RF are (by that I mean all the trappings that come with it) even as someone brought up in the UK. I think Meghan understood the sausage factory bit but honestly didn’t get just how much she would be restricted.

I think Meghan understood the sausage factory bit but honestly didn’t get just how much she would be restricted.

I actually agree with this. I also think she thought she'd be able to change the things she wasn't keen on once she got in and for this I 100% blame Harry. I've said before that I think neither of them could believe their luck with having hooked the other and so just thought they'd get down the aisle and sort everything else - her family, his withholding reality - out later.

The sausage factory can be interesting if you are interested in other people. Meghan is not.

It’s possible to think “oh it’s not going to be that bad” when it comes to make your own choices. She made a bad choice. It’s obvious by the interview in South Africa that she was struggling ( you may be annoyed because you may feel she should have suffered in silence like the rest of them but we know she was struggling regardless) and that is when Harry decided to get them out.

Regardless of who Harry married - he would have done the same if he felt she was struggling.

I wonder if some of the anger with Meghan was that she was never going to be a blank canvas and mouldable like Diana and to some extent Kate and therefore wouldn’t put up with the same things that Serenster helpfully reminded us some of the other royal women went through (Sarah and her weight for example). And she should have just taken it - is that it? And if Harry hadn’t been with someone who couldn’t take it - the RF would be intact benevolently bestowing their grace upon us, their ever grateful subjects? Is this where this line of “she should have known it was bad” is coming from?

I tell this story to remind people that there may be very real reasons for people not to name and shame - mine was pragmatism

I’ve had this very thing happen to me, more times than I can remember, so I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes it is easier just to let it go, because you know there is no point in saying anything, the other person will get all defensive and huffy etc. I’m not black, btw. Racism is not just about colour. I’ve also experienced similar when I’ve been the one female in a group of males in a formal work setting and been made to feel very uncomfortable. On those occasions, I have spoken up.

H&M haven’t just let it go though have they?

I understand and respect the difficulties in the moment to challenge it - but they are out the other side now so not under that pressure.

Why can Harry not be a role model in standing up to racism and name and shame the family member and then name and shame the reporter that spoke about his child like this?

Or are all of the unsaids, side-eye, knowing looks and etc more helpful to their specific relentless victim narrative - it keeps the debate alive and the attention in them - do they really want to root it out - or does this agitation, tension and speculation serve them better?