Revenge - by Tom Bower

[TideTimeSea]

As the other thread has filled up I wondered if anyone would like to discuss the book here. I’m listening to it on Audible now.

Charities use professional photographers. They will be taking photos of the work not just the celeb.

Harry has never met his father in law. I know in laws are not treated well by the royal family but that is another level of rudeness. Sheer bad manners

Neither of them will acknowledge that the royal family is the only basis on which anyone pays them any attention, or cash

Precisely
And I see there's still little mention of the public unpleasantness only really starting when they failed to get everything they wanted on leaving. Strange that, in Harry's own words, they wanted to continue to represent an institution which had allegedly done them so much wrong, but perhaps they realised even then how much the connection could be worth financially

Did they get paid for Oprah?

They claim not, but then they've claimed a number of things which have later been proved to be untrue, so the bottom line is that we may never know - and as you rightly said, "payment" doesn't necessarily have to involve money

A food bank does not hire a professional photographer to come and take photos, it just does not. These kind of charities are struggling financially.
Large national charities do hire professional photographers, but for adverts seeking donors or for their website.

What a weird thing to say. His job was publicly announced, it’s not a secret between him and his employer. A quick Google tells me he employed by Betterup as a Chief Impact Officer. According to Forbes magazine this is basically a brand ambassador role. So he likely doesn’t go into the office and do a days work like regular staff, but he associates his name with the company, creates what looks like a little content to advertise this association on their website. I’m sure lots of corporates will be impressed by this and sign up so it’s win win.

Dan Wootten has his own axe to grind but the two attachments by Richard Arnold and Emily Andrews are not saying that the PW or PC have leaked anything. Just that HAM have upset a lot of people and as a result PW and PC are distancing themselves from H.

I do agree, though, that the Cambridges and Catherine in particular, have been the biggest gainers. Kate has had tons of awful things said about her over the years, including having naked photos published, but she has just plodded on. I guess when people started to turn against the Sussexes, they needed to build someone up to push the Sussexes lower, and they lighted on Kate. Who was pretty, nicely presented and fairly anodyne. A pleasant contrast to Harry's moaning. PAC seem to have been the big winners from the contest. A bit of a hare and tortoise story really.

'lighted 'on Kate. Sounds qwhite right .

WideFootedTreeHopper may I ask what the source was for the photos linked at 13.32?

I just wondered because it was claimed that none except the already-known ones had been found, so I'm interested in where they came from?

You and I have had pleasant discussions, so I don't want to be rude, but I don't think you can say you're on the middle ground. I know that you think they were tits to do the Oprah interview but that does seem to be the only thing you've criticised them for. I mean I don't agree with vitriol and I think I'm quite fair in both sticking up for them over things they've done and also criticising or having a laugh at things they've done. I don't see that with you, albeit I accept that I haven't been on that many threads. But on the ones I have been on, I do see complete defence over everything HAM do and complete criticism over everything the WAC or the RF do. That doesn't really seem like middle ground to me. Surely, just like the rest of the world's population, neither of these couple get everything 100% right or 100% wrong?

William has lost his brother. The rift can be never really be repaired. Kate is very fond of Harry and has lost her relationship with him too. Their children have also lost out on knowing their cousins. I imagine they give a lot of emotional support to Charles too. I don’t call that a win.

Thomas Markle's estranged from all his children and grandchildren bar Samantha who I think he has been estranged from in the past, and has never met several of his grandchildren. Clearly he's the toxic one here.

You can't force someone to meet you if they don't want to. Tom refused to get on the plane to London, and the entire family were leaking like sieves. What was Harry supposed to do, get on a plane to Mexico knowing he'd be greeted by half the paps in the world, without any certainty of Tom even opening the door to him?

Thomas Markle was even assigned his own "press handler" whose job was to look after him and make sure he was okay and to deal with the press for him, that person was Jason Knauf who either massively fucked up his job (and Will and Kate just bizarrely overlooked it when they made him their CEO) or was acting under orders, and who was later proven to have leaked private emails to at least two tabloids.

I do wonder who Thomas Markle was referring to when he said someone involved was trying to mess up the wedding. Clearly not paps or anyone from the press, they had a huge financial agenda in the wedding going ahead.

I agree about the name change but I am pretty sure SM published a photo of her and MM taken about 10 years previously.
as far as the podcasts and Netflix items , I am beginning to wonder if they will ever surface . I don’t know a huge amount about podcasts but I do know that Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart managed to do one every week . And very good they are too.

The fact remains that Harry has never met his father in law. There was plenty of time long before the wedding. I can't believe anyone thinks that was decent behaviour. If TM was so 'toxic' then Meghan should never have considered him as father of the bride and giving her away.

In that tiny snatch of recording, he does not admit he lied about anything. He just doesn't.
Your post is just full of you guessing and presuming. You can't read in his head so you don't know. You're making an assumption that he understood that he knew in advance that some guys wanted to ruin the wedding and he joined in with their plan to achieve that. You have absolutely no proof that it's true other than you would have come to that conclusion in his position. You might and you might not but you can't automatically assume that he would have done if you would have done.

And you have no idea what his financial situation was from those photos.

I'm very critical of what TM has done and his behaviour but I can't just make things up about his knowledge and motivations simply because I don't like him.

I agree about the name change but I am pretty sure SM published a photo of her and MM taken about 10 years previously

As I understand it, they have no contact. But that hasn't stopped her vile sister trashing her endlessly, she set up many Twitter accounts to make damaging and defamatory statements about her, she fed lies to the Press, she has said that the pregnancies were fake, the kids were surrogate born and if she was pregnant it wasn't Harry's. I've seen the tweets, they are revolting. She's Meghan's biggest troll.
She also feeds lies to the other trolls, some of who have been banned on Twitter and FB.

My point is that it is deeply tacky to sell stories about other people and to write tell all books. I find Samantha, Thomas, Meghan and Harry to all be deeply tacky, immoral people with no dignity.

that is a good point. but doesn't it mean the very Book the thread is about is tacky and imoral?

The entire Markle family looks a little problematic - amazed at how many bankruptcies they have all had. Is this usual in the US?

I enjoyed the book. I also read his book about Charles (Rebel Prince) which was also very entertaining. He doesn't hold back.

I am be aware that MM has no contact with her sister ( or indeed most of her family) , I was merely pointing out that there is photographic evidence of them being together less than 20 years ago .

I am merely pointing out I have no idea. One photo if it's out there, does not make a relationship does it?

Are you being deliberately obtuse ?? It’s the timing not the relationship ( or not) I am mentioning .

I personally think Harry was happier before Meghan came along - though he did want a life partner and was finding it hard to find a woman at home who wanted to live in that kind of limelight, routine and ritual. I think he would have been happier if he'd been able to stay in the army and found a cheery army wife. Or moved to Botswana and worked on a reserve. He's clearly no brain surgeon but enjoyed the comraderie and sense of belonging in the services - many who leave service life miss it terribly and find it hard to adjust to life outside.

I think Meghan was ambitious and thought she'd be able use her Hollywood PR and influencer ability to good effect in her new role. I think she under estimated the duties of the role of a Consort in the RF - which is so rigid and rule bound. She didn't want to be told how long she had to stay at official meet and greets with the public and found it boring. She didn't understand noblesse oblige - with great privilege comes great responsibility, and you are expected to treat everyone with grace and politeness and be reasonable (not bullying staff). In that way I think her claim that she didn't do research was true - she didn't properly understand she couldn't do it her way and bend it all to her will.

I suspect the revenge refers to them walking away, the claims of not being supported and thrown under the bus. The RF's response was also revenge.

In the end the collateral damage is Harry - he's lost his old friends, his army connections, his country pursuits, his family and the country he's at home in. I feel sorry for him. I don't think a pointless LA influencer lifestyle will suit him either. But he's tied into it now and angry and frustrated.

I agree . I also put a lot of blame on Harry for not taking his time to explain protocol etc .
The Bottom line is that they didn’t get what they wanted - half in, half out- so flounced off .
I do wonder if they had been allowed their wish , we would have heard anything about alleged racism etc ?

I have NO idea what your point is.
You say there's a photo put there that's been taken in the last ten years
So?

@MarshaMelrose

you could make the case if TM only had one interview regarding his daughter. Your case falls apart because he had several. At one time even saying 'it's time daddy got paid'.

once is accidental, but so many of them where he is getting paid is not. Not sure why you are defending him so much, but even he could have talked to his daughter instead of ghosting her and would not need to say all this about her.

@Readinginthesun
Can I just point out that the picture of MM with SM are not the same date as the certificate produced.
One has the uni stamp at the top, the other has it at the bottom.

Gosh. Posters diagnosing how Harry feels, what he thinks,the state of his marriage, what he misses, what he doesn't like, what he enjoys. Oh, to be an insider knowing all this!

He could just be happy you know, relieved he's left, enjoying the freedom, how's about that for a thought?