Revenge - by Tom Bower

[TideTimeSea]

As the other thread has filled up I wondered if anyone would like to discuss the book here. I’m listening to it on Audible now.

I don’t think even Meghan would dispute that she wants to earn a load of cash (don’t we all?!). Why else would they sign multi million dollar contracts with the likes of Netflix and Spotify? Yet to see the output I believe.

I hadn't thought about it before but wasn't it in South Africa that she did her interview about how hard her life was and how no one cared about her? Maybe she just feels an affinity with Africa?

Yes being biracial and all.Maybe she felt comfortable in Africa, some black / biracial people from the west feel a certain peace in the motherland

I’m as white as they come but the first time I set foot on African soil I felt I was home. 🤷‍♀️

there seemed to be a reasonable explanation for H's revenge, namely that the RF did not allow him to be king

This is the oddest thing I have read about H.

The RF didn't 'allow' him to be king? What? So, you think he asked to be king and the RF said no? That's mad. Don't you understand how the RF works?

The oldest child (used to be the oldest son) of the monarch becomes the next monarch. That's how royalty works. Other members of the family don't ask to have a go instead. It just never happens. H would have known the whole of his life that his older brother was going to be king. There is nothing to feel slighted about and therefore no reason to take revenge. H and W were never in competition for the position of king.

The other reason that it's really odd to think that Harry wanted to be king is that he has said many times that doesn't envy his brother being scrutinised all the time. Willliam's life is terribly restricted. He's on show most of the time and has to maintain his bland, perfect and yet charming king in waiting persona everywhere he goes. In contrast Harry has had a lot more freedom to be himself. I find it incredibly unlikely that he would WANT to be king. Who really would?

I think the culture gap between Meghan and the royal family was exactly this. Meghan came from a world where you openly and constantly manipulate your image to further yourself. If something doesn't work you forget it and move on and expect everyone else to forget it too. The royal family live in a world where their image is honed through subtle self deprecation and longevity. Memories are long and patterns of behaviour are noted.

Clearly, I was not being literal (obviously, not clear enough). Of course H was never going to be king but, as many posters argued in the previous thread, his bad behaviour then and now appeared to stem from that very fact, much like Margaret's apparent lifelong unhappiness seemed to stem from a similar circumstance. In other words, if he had been treated 'fairly', i.e., in a 'kingly' manner instead of just as a spare (however it is that spares are typically treated), much of his bad behaviour may have been avoided. But, that could never be. So, he took his revenge.

Do we have a better explanation for why Bower chose to title his book "Revenge"? Why should H (& M) feel vengeful toward the RF?

To be honest, at a guess it could be debated, that these days as if, the public will ever know the whole truth, even books that purport, to be "truth"

www.instagram.com/tv/CPQwhVPBCVL/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

I wondered if this was meant to be an impression of Tom Bower? I’ve never actually heard him speak. Or maybe just royal family-adjacent talking heads.

The book does sound interesting from the influencer/Hollywood culture POV. Like previous posters have said the successful people in Hollywood are not usually there because they are nice people!

One thing I find very interesting is finding out about the process of paying for comments on social media. How you can pay a PR company to create thousands of fake (or just paid per post) accounts to either post for or against a particular person or cause.

Nothing is real these days.

Meghan hugged children shock horror!

I really don't agree with the envy of William being King thing. It has never been like that for Harry... he has always been a square peg in a round hole within the RF, he has expressed his unease with all of it many a time for years before Meghan came along. She was the catalyst for him to be able to get out.

MaulPerton you say he 'took revenge'. How? By leaving. That's rather unfair surely.
It was never going to work with MM in the RF (different culture, backgrounds, lives) so they left. Good on them. Best thing they ever did. Hardly revenge unless you are upset that the evil woman stole our prince?!

I saw an interview with Bower. He was a complete windbag spouting nonsense. Not likeable or credible in the slightest.

Paid-for PR is big business although bots, content mills and anonymous social media posters get paid pennies but the PR companies like Sunshine Sachs get massive contracts.
Most stories that 'trend' on social media are paid-for and most rabid fandoms are paid toi. But MN is a bit twitchy about discussions around it especially on Sussex threads. I've been here years and worked in the industry. One of the few times I had a post deleted was when I explained how paid posts and PR worked.

It’s fascinating isn’t it? I’m also intrigued by dynamic pricing. As someone said above, nothing is real.
I don’t have a strong option about MM either way, like I said above, the book is most interesting in how it sheds light on the whole murky world of self-promotion, questionable philanthropy, PR etc. This is widespread and Meghan is doing/has done nothing unusual for her industry.
I find it frustrating that the died in the wool MM defenders on MN get so defensive when this is discussed - she is only doing what thousands others do. It is obviously somewhat distasteful but also undeniable, and completely legal and common (widespread). No one is flawless, no one is saintly, including MM. I find it impossible to take the MM fanatics seriously because they immediately shoot down anything that might be seen as other than 100% devotion. It’s ridiculous. She is human, and therefore flawed, like everyone else. She also has tonnes of ability and drive, which should be admired. But she was never going to integrate into the RF because of her attachment to her brand and the earnings she could foresee for herself. And there is nothing wrong with that!
I’m withholding my own judgment on the racism accusations because I haven’t got to that point in the book yet. But, regardless, it could never have worked with the RF once you understand the ceaseless efforts she had already invested for years and years into her own financial independence and, crucially, her profile. And that is not a criticism, just how it is.

I think people questioning the 'philanthropy' and getting upset about the Rwanda trip don't understand the value of these sorts of trips to the charities and to the communities on the ground. Of course the celebs are using the trips for publicity. As are the charities. But trips with a celeb can raise awareness of campaigns and raise thousands if not millions of pounds for the communities. It's absolutely worth it for everyone involved imo.
It's also fairly common for photographers and celebs to sneak away to try to get their own stories or/and shots.
Each agency and charity has its own code of conduct for trips and for photos with children. Most are based around Save the Children's code and the UN rights of the child ie respect the dignity of everyone involved.

Of course the celebs are using the trips for publicity. As are the charities.

I worked for a charity and I would say all volunteers are volunteering for personal motives. It can be a,range of reasons from giving them a buzz to putting it on a cv. If people didn't get anything out if it, they wouldn't volunteer. No one volunteers because it doesn't add to their life in some way!
Of course celebs use charities to raise their profile and to make money from it. Perfect example is David Beckham and his leaked emails. He made money out of it and expected a knighthood from it. UNICEF didn't want to pay for expenses he'd never incurred but at the same time he was important to their campaign so they defended him publicly.
Can't blame MM for wanting a slice of the pie too.

One of the interesting points in the Colleen Rooney/Rebekah Vardy judgement was the judge explaining how the PR staged “pap photographs” work - something people on past discussions of Meghan have not realised (or were not interested in believing) was also a tactic used by Meghan both in the past and currently.

Do we have a better explanation for why Bower chose to title his book "Revenge"? Why should H (& M) feel vengeful toward the RF?

seeing as the author hasn't even met M when he wrote the Book. its just a clickbait title.

The royal family live in a world where their image is honed through subtle self deprecation and longevity.

LOL very funny joke! The RF manipulate and control the media a million times more than any actress. Remember the extreme smear campaign designed to paint Diana as unstable and a bully because she wouldn't tolerate infidelity and gaslighting? The time William's security threatened and tried to arrest Krishnan Guru-Murthy and the Channel 4 news team by lying that they were on private property when they were on a public road, after C4 caught William having secret political meetings in Scotland? The many times William has threatened and used legal threats and injunctions to censor the press? The time Kate tantrummed about the Tatler article because it was a bit snide and passive aggressive, but the only part they demanded be removed was a reference to Rose Hanbury? The multi-million pound PR campaign to rehabilitate Camilla and portray them as star crossed lovers finally together after being cruelly prevented from marrying, when Charles had other mistresses and Camilla didn't even want to marry him? But oh Meghan let a photographer take a photo of her with no makeup once, the manipulate famechaser!!

Not sure you can say that "just happened." I think she went to quite some lengths to engineer it.
What misogynistic rot. Harry fell madly in love with her the first time they met, and Harry admits he was the one who did the chasing, yet the woman gets blamed for "going to lengths to engineer it." Meghan, who had a successful life and career on another continent!

Do we have a better explanation for why Bower chose to title his book "Revenge"?
Because it's designed to be a hatchet job and smear campaign against Harry and Meghan. The Telegraph ran an interesting article today suggesting the recent flood of anti-Harry content is a deliberate attempt to induce "Harry fatigue" so there'll be less interest in his own book, which of course the RF are terrified of.

William and Kate buy huge numbers of fake Instagram followers. They're all at it.

No one is flawless, no one is saintly, including MM. I find it impossible to take the MM fanatics seriously because they immediately shoot down anything that might be seen as other than 100% devotion. It’s ridiculous.

I think you are the one being ridiculous actually. No, she isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, they behave like a couple of tits at times, but she really doesn't deserve the mauling she gets on MN for the most minor things. I hate bullying. That's what it is. You like to call it 100% devotion. So wrong.

who are these fanatics? I have not seen any on mn.

The only fanatics are the ones obsessed with hating her, who follow her every movement and start threads bashing her every day.

As other posters have said, MM came from a world where you’re constantly honing your image working your way up the Hollywood ladder, her career had plateaued and she thought marrying into the royal family was a golden opportunity to instantly land Hollywood a-list status but the trade off that her brand control would be largely subsumed within the RF wasn’t explained to her in advance or she didn’t listen to the warnings in advance. Also her Hollywood chat show/ UN speech anecdotes would be subjected to proper scrutiny. She wasn’t prepared for that either

I don’t think anyone on this thread has been “bashing” MM. Can you quote examples?
It’s been mostly a calm discussion about the book and how it casts light on the whole world of “influencers”, personal branding and philanthropy.

I don’t think I’m “ridiculous” but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

No, she isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, they behave like a couple of tits at times.

What are these times when they've behaved like a couple of tits?

Of course I point out that plenty of other royals have done worse or more manipulative things or even the exact same things and immediately it's all "Meghan Meghan Meghan Meghan." Just obsessed!

It's all very "but Hilary's emails" isn't it?