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The royal family

Camilla not the Royal Harry said made racist comments

339 replies

antelopevalley · 25/07/2022 14:08

After the revelation that Camilla allegedly said it would be funny if Harry and Meghan's baby had a "ginger afro", one "highly placed source told Page Six: “Camilla is not racist — I can tell you categorically she is not the royal who Harry and Meghan were talking about.”"

pagesix.com/2022/07/22/camilla-parker-bowles-is-not-the-racist-royal-insiders-say/

If true this is worse. It would mean that Camilla says racist jokes, but that another member of the Royal Family had said more damning racist remarks.

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Thread gallery
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queenofarles · 26/07/2022 19:11

They can retitle it using the current day translation of the Dutch title instead of the archaic one that has since been recognized as offensive. the black nun of Moret was renamed , it wasnt always known as La Mauresse de Moret. no idea if it’s an insurance thing though with the Aelbert Cuyp.

IrisVersicolor · 26/07/2022 19:58

Readinginthesun · 26/07/2022 18:51

I have a wry smile when I see people trying to brush off Harry’s documented and confirmed racist as him being young . If I remember, he was early 20s so hardly a child .
In other threads , posters are told that their 18th are old DC are adults.
Had William said these shocking things would everyone be so forgiving ? Doubt it .

Brush off? It seems painfully desperate to bring it up when he’s clearly woken up now. And when so many MN posters are so painfully cloth-eared on race themselves.

allboysherebutme · 26/07/2022 22:20

Just because it's in the media. It doesn't me it's true. X

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 01:22

Choopi · 26/07/2022 18:49

I've just seen the 'racist painting' when someone linked to it there. It has a kid, some men, some horses, a gun, a dog and big buildings. Is that not what the royal family are into? Is it not possible they just went oh look a painting with all of these thing that we like, it fits the colour scheme of the room, nice one, we'll pick this? Or do they royal family have to pick pictures differently to us plebs? They must have so many rooms that picking paintings for them all must be a bloody chore? Or am I looking at this from too much of a normal person's point of view? Most of my house is blank walls because I can't be arsed picking out artwork to put up.

Catherine has an art history degree, Why would she pick a painting for such a prominent position on the basis the colour fits with the colour scheme of the room?
Do you really think she is that thick?

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Readinginthesun · 27/07/2022 08:09

@antelopevalley you have spent the last 2 days criticising Catherine ( presumably William has nothing to do with the choice of paintings!) .
Do you feel better for it ?

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 09:56

@Readinginthesun You are wrong. They are both to blame. But I find it bizarre that some who are "defining" the choice of painting, are basically arguing that it is fine because William and Catherine are too thick to realise the implications. A strange kind of defence.
And Catherine's art history degree is relevant as she presumably has some interest and knowledge of art as a result. So the idea she would be involved in choosing a painting simply because its colours fit with the decor, is a bizarre suggestion.

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antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 10:03

"At least one lackey working in the Kensington Palace in the United Kingdom deserves a raise this year. The royal aide noticed the word "Negro" on a plaque describing a Dutch painting only minutes before American President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle was set to arrive in the room. The painting in question is "The Negro Page" by Dutch artist Albert Cuyp. It was named when the artist painted it in 1660 and its name was since updated to "A page with two horses". But not on the plaque describing the painting where it hangs in Duke William and Duchess Kate's private apartment in the palace, where they entertained the Obamas on Friday night. A frantic employee was sent for a screwdriver and removed the plaque before the Americans arrival. A houseplant was strategically moved to hide its absence. "Everyone knew this was the first time cameras had been allowed into the the Duke and Duchess' private home so everything had been prepped accordingly", a source said to British news agency The Sun. "Imagine the horror when someone spotted the N-word on the huge painting that dominated the room. No-one wanted to cause any offense to the Obamas so a screwdriver was summoned to remove the picture's title.""

nltimes.nl/2016/04/27/negro-title-dutch-painting-quickly-covered-obamas-royal-visit

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MaulPerton · 27/07/2022 10:19

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 01:22

Catherine has an art history degree, Why would she pick a painting for such a prominent position on the basis the colour fits with the colour scheme of the room?
Do you really think she is that thick?

I wasn't going to enter this debate, but...

Antelope

Do you only see the race issue? Isn't the painting also sexist to both Michelle Obama and Kate on account of omitting women altogether, and xenophobic to both W & K and the Obamas because it comes from the Dutch School? Should the Obamas have expected heteronormativity to be clearly represented?

As per my previous point, perhaps Kate considered the Obamas sufficiently intelligent and mature to understand these things (but we will never know what she thought, of course).

Race is a serious issue just as is everything else to do with human demography so battles need to be picked carefully. Marina Hyde created a column out of the single word "reported" because she needed a story to be filtered through a specific lens.

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 10:39

MN gets more and more like the Daily Mail comments every day.
I am reminded of those arguing that we needed to keep the statue of Colston in Bristol otherwise people would forget that the slave trade happened. While others argued that we should pull down every statue of Victoria because colonialism happened in her watch.
The level of critical thinking in Britain is really quite low. I wish it was taught properly in schools.

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ajandjjmum · 27/07/2022 12:19

unname · 26/07/2022 18:59

It was a football field and the kids were outside it? Not fenced in a prison or something?

They were not due to meet K & W but seeing that they were waiting, K & W went and said hello without thinking of the optics. Such a sad thing - they tried to be kind to the kids and have been dragged over the coals for it by many ever since.

They obviously should have totally blanked them, and then no fencing would have been seen (although there would have been quite a few disappointed kids!)

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 12:23

The famous black footballer who was also there realised the optics and went to a part of the fence with a large hole.
Catherine and William to be charitable do not seem aware of the optics around racism, and so did not. Neither do their advisers seem aware. But then they were the only royal team not to publish figures around staff diversity, presumably because they would not have looked good.

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antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 12:24

And they had arranged a famous black footballer to be present. That is who the crowds were there to see and why there was so many young kids. A properly planned visit would have foreseen this.

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derxa · 27/07/2022 12:36

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 12:24

And they had arranged a famous black footballer to be present. That is who the crowds were there to see and why there was so many young kids. A properly planned visit would have foreseen this.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kate-middleton-prince-william-given-26533380
The 'famous black footballer is Raheem Sterling. Why don't you name him? In this article Raheem says he came out to meet W and C. William is patron of the FA. Look at the photos. No fences

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 27/07/2022 12:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 12:41

@derxa Memory fail. Photo I was referring to.

Camilla not the Royal Harry said made racist comments
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Serenster · 27/07/2022 12:58

The level of critical thinking in Britain is really quite low. I wish it was taught properly in schools.

You talk about critical thinking antelopevalley, it would be nice if you’d let us know how you’re logically and rationally approaching the issues thrown up by this scenario. Because your starting point is clearly that the picture is problematic, but you haven’t told us why. Someone upthread also denied that anyone had taken the position that any picture that had a black servant in it is racist, so it out be really helpful to understand what it is about this particular picture that is the issue.

Is it because it was painted by a Dutchman?
Is it because it was painted in 1640?
Is it because it depicts a landscape scene of three people, horses and dogs?
Is it because one of the people in the pictures is black?
Is it because the black person in the picture is in the centre and is the most prominent person in the composition?
Is it because the black person is dressed in expensive clothes?
Is it because the black person was a servant?
Is it because there is a small possibility that the black person was a slave (despite slavery being illegal in that area when the painting was created)
Is it because the painting was historically titled “The Negro Page” (but is no longer – reports say it had been retitled by at least 2010 by the way)
Is it because the painting had a name plate on it saying “The Negro Page” (but no longer does)
Is it because it was selected by a white couple to hang in their home?
Is it because they entertained a black couple in their home while that painting was there?

Or Is it because external parties have created a subjective narrative around what they think the attitudes of the couple choosing the painting and/or the thoughts of the couple in the house with the painting on the wall must be (bearing in mind we have no way of knowing either of these things, and also bearing in mind the narratives will have been influenced by personal biases)?

Serenster · 27/07/2022 12:59

And, because you already brought up the example of the statues of prominent slave industry figures like Colston, there are several key differences between that example and this.

Firstly, the context of a statue is that it is put up to commemorate and celebrate an individual person. The most similar type of painting would be a portrait. This is not a portrait - it’s a landscape with figures. They are, so far as we know, anonymous. It may have been based on a real life scene, or it may have been entirely from the artist’s imagination. Given it’s not commemorative of anything, it’s harder to distill what about the picture is objectionable, particularly if it’s depicting a real life scene.

Secondly - the activities of a figure like Colston that are being celebrated by the statue are established fact. Here, you are replying entirely on assumptions in order to construct a narrative that the painting represents a slave. Against that, the boy is dressed in expensive clothing, is literally front and centre of the picture - he is not in the background, or “set dressing” - and if a real figure, was living in a time where it is more likely than not that he is a servant, not a slave. Your assumptions may differ - that is fine, but that illustrates the point - we are dealing with subjective assumptions here, not objective facts.

Thirdly, as we’ve already discussed, an art work like this will have an inherent value that statues tend not to have, based on the identity of the artist (it’s very rare that anyone values a statue of a historic figure based on who the sculptor was) and its value as a contemporaneous image of the past. Again, a statue of a dead white man created after his death doesn’t have this aspect that might cause it to have value. The painting may not be to your taste - I am not fond of the works of Lucien Freud, for example - but it as be foolish to think they aren’t highly valued by others.

So, to my mind, this is not the same kind of situation at all.

MaulPerton · 27/07/2022 13:04

I am reminded of those arguing that we needed to keep the statue of Colston in Bristol otherwise people would forget that the slave trade happened

Certainly, it could have served as a focal point for diversity, reminding us who was both included and excluded from socio-cultural arrangements in history and who may be included and excluded today.

unname · 27/07/2022 13:26

Does critical thinking now mean “agree with all of my opinions which I state as fact with hardly any supporting evidence?”

derxa · 27/07/2022 13:37

unname · 27/07/2022 13:26

Does critical thinking now mean “agree with all of my opinions which I state as fact with hardly any supporting evidence?”

Yes and it's a device used on MN to say 'You're thick and I'm an intellectual'.

IrisVersicolor · 27/07/2022 13:53

ajandjjmum · 27/07/2022 12:19

They were not due to meet K & W but seeing that they were waiting, K & W went and said hello without thinking of the optics. Such a sad thing - they tried to be kind to the kids and have been dragged over the coals for it by many ever since.

They obviously should have totally blanked them, and then no fencing would have been seen (although there would have been quite a few disappointed kids!)

Poor things, they tried to be kind to people behind a fence and were unaccountably criticised.

ajandjjmum · 27/07/2022 14:06

But let's be clear - the fence was an existing barrier, there to stop people going on to the pitch - bit like at my kids' school. The fence wasn't there to keep people away from K & W or Sterling.

They were criticised for acting spontaneously, and not thinking of the optics - which is very sad.

antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 14:08

Very sad that they and their aides should think of the optics with the worlds press gathered?
I would have been sacked if I had arranged a trip for senior people without thinking through these risks. It is pretty basic. What will the press see to take photos of.

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antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 14:09

And nobody thought that William and Catherine had got that fence put up for their visit. Even they are not that clueless.

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antelopevalley · 27/07/2022 14:11

unname · 27/07/2022 13:26

Does critical thinking now mean “agree with all of my opinions which I state as fact with hardly any supporting evidence?”

It means being able to address points rather than respond with whataboutery or ad hominem.

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