Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet

[Snog]

Do you think Prince Charles will bestow titles on Harry's children when he becomes king?

Lots of people find that hard to get their head around. I remember once having a lengthy discussion with my bookgroup explaining how:

The Hon. Deborah Freeman-Mitford
Deborah Cavendish, Lady Andrew Cavendish
Deborah Hartington, the Marchioness of Hartington
Deborah Devonshire, the Duchess of Devonshire

Were all the same person, just at different points in time.

Actually Prince Michael might have been 6th not 7th .

Apparently they will automatically get the titles when Charles is King. Whether or not a nod from the monarch is expected before they start using them who knows. I think they'll be snapped up before anyone can blink an eye. Still we shall have to wait and see.

But how is any of it 'fair'?

Is it 'fair' that Meghan got to enjoy massive privilege and fancy titles just because she married someone who happened to be born to the 'right' people?

Surely if you happily accept those titles and privileges, as Meghan clearly did and does, going by the fact that she still uses those titles even as a private citizen in California, then you can't complain when the same system means that the children of the future king, one of them a future king himself, are 'more important' than the children of his younger brother?

you were correct first time, he was 7th. George VI was King. Elizabeth, Margaret, Duke of Gloucester, Prince William, Duke of Kent and Prince Edward (current Duke of Kent) were ahead of him.

he moved to 6th a few weeks later when his father was killed.

Like most people, I've not watched Oprah in ages, but does she ever really 'push back'?

She's never been a Jeremy Paxman style of interviewer, challenging the interviewee and asking tricky follow up questions. Hers is the 'confessional' style which seems rather dated now, but was quite groundbreaking 40 years ago. Her aim is to get the interviewee to spill as much as possible, and I guess in that sense she was successful. I expect Harry and Meghan approved the questions in advance. I don't think this was ever intended to be a hard hitting interview, because they would never have agreed to it and it's not Oprah's style in any case.

Sorry, but I disagree.

MM seemed to understand very well. What she was saying was that they would go out of their way to change the LPs specifically for A&L, just as they did specifically for C&L. That is what she was saying was being discussed. Now that she has let that cat out of the bag, it's highly unlikely that PC will go ahead with that idea, but I suspect it would have been done quietly if she did not disclose it on Oprah.

Not too sure what you expected Oprah to follow up with, as MM said this was what was in discussions, and since LPs had been changed before, this was not a completely new concept. Where would Oprah have seen any publication of this discussion for example? She can only take H&M's word for it that the discussion took place.

As for A&L, this is their birthright to do as they wish when they come of age, not really up to H&M to say if they don't want to.

Yes, I think that Meghan obviously was confused/didn't understand the situation. She also linked it to the potential skin colour conversation which Harry recounted to her.
I think Harry had a responsibility to at least talk her through the situation as pp have done for others on this thread.

Exactly. Harry really should have explained it to her (and Oprah).
He seems to have not been able to.

Nobody ever accused Harry of being bright.

@notanotheroneagain I was waiting for Oprah to follow up with questions about the pressures on the RF to slim down the monarchy. So if the LPs were changed to exclude their kids, it could be because the public favors a smaller RF (and not because the RF was out to punish MM and her kids). I was just left wanting more, that's all.

Well, Meghan also said that she didn't know the national anthem, that she didn't know she had to curtsey to the Queen, didn't know how to curtsey and didn't know any of the hymns sung in church. So Harry was certainly remiss at least in part.
It doesn't surprise me that she didn't know about the titles.

Meghan knew. She even quotes the King George LPs in the interview.

If the reason was to slim down, then surely, nothing would have been changed for Charlotte. The rule would have changed to ' if the first born is a girl, then they will be treated like the boy' or some wording to that effect.

It turns out, there was no need for such a rule as George was the boy first born.

The fact that rules were changed for C&L does not scream slimmed down. If the purpose is slim down, then the rules would say something along the lines of 'first born irrespective of gender' - meaning it only sticks to George (or Charlotte if she was fist bon), his first born only, and first born of that first born and so down the line you go.

Perhaps the slimming down question should be addressed to PC or HMQ.

I said before on here that if Meghan had posted on relationships saying that her DH had a family business and he hadn’t told her any of the protocols or rules, and had let her look silly publicly by ranting about things he should have told her, then she’d have been told to LTB

Fair point, @JustLyra!

It should be remembered that the rules weren’t changed for Charlotte.

the LP’s were issued when Kate was pregnant with George. They weren’t to do with the slimming down - purely about avoiding the PR disaster of a female being born first but not being entitled to a title equitable to a younger male sibling.

It was a quick fix for something that happened, in royal terms, rather quickly with the succession changes.

With all due respect @JustLyra that is quite a stretch for trivial things that H would have taken for granted and not give much thought to. I mean how much could MM be penalised for these things, which she admits she learnt in a few seconds before the event (Fergie showing her how to curtsy).

Lots of people born and bred here in the UK don't know how to curtsy, and learn it as they are about to meet HMQ. How many people marry a Catholic without knowing the protocols and traditions of that church beforehand. Hardly a deal breaker.

Not sure if you were referring to me @JustLyra , but as I said, I don't see how the changes to the LPs could have been about slimming down as people seem to insist they were.

I don't think this was ever intended to be a hard hitting interview, because they would never have agreed to it and it's not Oprah's style in any case.

I think once Oprah involved herself in their "resettling" and got her mates helping out too, there was likely a sense of obligation and I think they probably didn't feel like they had much choice or at least they were persuaded that this was the opportunity to Tell Their Truth. I also disagree that it wasn't a hard hitting interview. Look at the outcomes. I think Oprah knew exactly what she was doing letting those claims be made and just allowed to drift out there.

It’s not just about her being penalised though, it’s about how it would have made her feel.

Imagine being in a serious relationship with someone and only midway to meeting his Granny do you discover that as well as all the public shenanigans you’re expected to curtsy in private as well? And you quickly get shown outside his uncle’s house by his aunt.

She was unaware that the royals did that. She was unaware of the Christmas Day traditions of changing shitloads of times. She was unaware, because he didn’t educate her, on the status of their children. How security worked. How titles worked. So on and so forth.

He didn’t teach her how his family worked, and how their life would work within that family.
She’d have been well within her rights to be absolutely bloody furious about that.

No, just generally as people have mentioned several times the changes being made for Charlotte. Which isn’t the case.

Ok, whatever @JustLyra
She did not seem particularly upset to me, just pointing out the things that Harry took for granted as he was doing them all his life.
I remember colleagues saying they did not know some of the things done in private either as they don't follow the RF that much. It just seemed like a stick some have grabbed to bit her with.

Also quite different, as she quoted King George, so she knew this important fact. it was probably something they discussed with Harry - wondering why concerns about Archie skin and then discussions of changing LPs on the back of that. How do you mean, how the family works, exactly? You mean that they treat people of colour differently? Because Harry would not have known that either considering his past gf's were white.

Hence why some people think they are not titled already - they both are.

Theoretically though, on assuming the throne Charles could revoke the LP's and stop them from being HRH.

I doubt he'd do that though as it would be a bad PR move.

It's also smart after H&M have said they don't care about titles to see how "their truth" compares to reality....

Best to bat that ball back to the Sussex's.....

No idea why you are being so snippy.

it should be a stick to hit him with. Not her.
It doesn’t matter that you, me, colleagues, press etc didn’t know how the RF worked. As his partner she should have known because he should have explained it. In detail.

What I mean by how the family works is exactly that - how they work. Curtsying to Granny when you meet for lunch and the works.

She also stated that they expected all of the grandchildren to be treated the same. Which showed a lack of understanding over the primogeniture change and the reason for the Cambridge children being titled early.

She also stated that they expected all of the grandchildren to be treated the same. Which showed a lack of understanding over the primogeniture change and the reason for the Cambridge children being titled early.

Again, this is something that Harry could very easily have explained to her just by looking at his own cousins. Across the eight of them, all grandchildren of the sovereign, there are two Princes, two Princesses, one Viscount, one Lady and two with no titles at all.