Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet

[Snog]

Do you think Prince Charles will bestow titles on Harry's children when he becomes king?

@JustLyra Interesting. That scenario would put PW in a tricky position as he might look churlish to pass Archie and Lili over.

Why would William never become Duke of Cornwall? I don't understand that title I think.

This is correct.

Anne wanted them to grow up as 'normal' as possible, which they have.

thanks, I was getting confused.

The Duke of Cornwall is only a title that can be held by someone who is both the Monarch's eldest and heir apparent.

So if Charles died before his mother then William would be heir apparent, but not the eldest son of the Monarch, so he couldn't have it.

Andrew would be the monarch's eldest son, but he wouldn't get it either as he's not the heir apparent.

It would be down to the Queen to handle it/delegate it with no Duke in place until the next time there was both an eldest son and heir apparent (i.e George)

I don't think it would actually. He wouldn't be passing them over, it's not like it would be a decision he was making.

That would just be a, potentially sad for them, technicality of the LP's of 1917, which he'd have the backing of being able to say that his grandmother never altered.

If Charles died first the Queen would have the option of issuing special LP's for Harry's children so if she didn't then William would be able to say that he was just respecting his Granny and the LP's she supported.

Interesting, thanks Lyra!

If Charles predeceased the Queen, then Archie and Lilibet would not be grandchildren of a monarch. Would that mean they were not entitled to titles Prince/Princess?

Yes, that’s correct.

They are Lady and Viscount though, not Prince and Princess, like Andrews daughters

They use Lady and Viscount. They are legally entitled to use HRH Princess and Prince, and according to their mother have the choice to do so from 18 if they wish.

Thank you. That makes sense. Yes a potentially sad technicality is a good description.

I watched the Oprah interview and I thought Meghan said they were told their kids' HRH titles would be revoked. She implied it was unfair and didn't understand why the RF would go out of their way to strip her kids of something that was historically their birth right. At least that's what I remember saying. I love Oprah, but imo she really didn't do a good job of asking follow-up questions.

Cartoonmom · Today 14:03
I watched the Oprah interview and I thought Meghan said they were told their kids' HRH titles would be revoked. She implied it was unfair and didn't understand why the RF would go out of their way to strip her kids of something that was historically their birth right. At least that's what I remember saying. I love Oprah, but imo she really didn't do a good job of asking follow-up questions.

Yes she did say that and I recall it being discussed on various threads at the time . I’m not sure whether she misunderstood or she had been told . Whatever the reason I am fairly certain that HRH titles will be willingly accepted at the time. It seems unlikely that HM is going to amend LP .

I think oprah regrets not checkimg and not pushing back a bit.

Meghan didn’t seem to understand how it worked at all.

I don’t think she realised why the then-future Cambridge children had special LP’s issued and seemed to think that not being extended to all of Charles’ grandchildren meant Harry’s children lost their titles.

When in fact Harry’s children aren’t entitled to Princely titles until his father is King, and nothing has been done to deny that to them so far.

I agree Meghan did not seem to understand the rules ( & to be fair they are arcane ) and nor did Oprah. But surely Harry must have understood them. He's lived with it for his formative and later years. Well - I think it matters not - they have gone to do what they want to do & I wish them the best. But I wish they would not try to hang on to the coat tails of the RF when they want their own life. Looking forward to their huge Netflix productions . Would any other couple with the talents those two have honestly get such an amount of money unless they were connected to the RF . I wish they would stop using it as their cheque & do whatever they wish but live within their means . But I suppose they are using all at their disposal .

I agree Meghan did not seem to understand the rules ( & to be fair they are arcane ) and nor did Oprah. But surely Harry must have understood them. He's lived with it for his formative and later years.

Tbh I think that rule is a pretty simple one. Especially when you consider it was drawn up in 1917 - even the royal family tended not to live that long. George V didn’t see several of his grandchildren born, let alone great-grandchildren.

I think they just didn’t grasp that the change for the Cambridge children wasn’t just about them being next in line - if the primogeniture change hadn’t happened they may not have bothered changing it. They issued that special LP so that the glaringly sexist element of the 1917 LP and the line of succession until then wasn’t highlight by a future Queen having a lesser title than her younger brother didn’t happen.

the minutiae of that seems to have gone over Harry’s head and therefore he wasn’t able to explain it to Meghan.

Meghan didn’t seem to understand how it worked at all.

No I don't think she did. And to be honest even as a British person who has lived here all her life I struggle with bits of it and who people like Prince Michael of Kent are. She didn't understand and spun it to Oprah as her children "being denied" titles which their cousins have. And it wasn't in Oprah's or the viewing figures interests to challenge her on that. Harry should have corrected her but I get the impression there's a lot of things he has trouble understanding intellectually too.

I also think from an American/non-Royal perspective it's hard to get your head around the fact that your titles might change just because of what happens to other people. The norm for 99.9999999% of us is that you are born Miss Whatever and then when you marry you may choose to be Mrs Somethingelse. It is not the norm to have a change of name/title when your granny or ggrandparent dies.

But surely if you really wanted to know who Prince Michael of Kent was then you’d just Google him and it would become clear.

That’s the baffling bit about Harry, Meghan and Oprah. That no-one involved in that set up googled to find out how it works to ask appropriate questions or give appropriate answers.

The details are all out there.

I can only assume Harry assumed he did know and everyone trusted his words because he was the royal.

I think Oprah, who had tried to get "The Interview" out of Diana, had a very clear agenda of what she wanted out of this one, and couldn't believe her luck that she'd got a sit down with these two. Hence the lack of push back. A lot of discussions around "inequalities" and "inclusion" rely on not being pushed back on too hard tbh.

There was no pushback. And yes a LA research could indeed Google Prince Michael Of Kent, whose Wiki page starts "ember of the British royal family, who is 52nd in the line of succession to the British throne as of February 2022."

And the researcher thinks 50 fucking second and he's a PRINCE!! But Archie is 7th in line and he's a Mr! How is THAT fair? And that adds to their narrative of hard done by Hazza and Megs.

Someone researching for Harry and Meghan wouldn’t have searched for PMOK, that’s massively twisting my point…

they’d likely have googled the Cambridge kids and would have got reams of details on the special LP’s for William’s children, the changed in the primogeniture rules and it would have explained all.

When he was born , Prince Michael was 7th in the LOS , same as Archie is currently .