I now love Liverpool football fans

[Tania64]

Due to them booing the so called 'royal' William & the national anthem yesterday at the F.A. cup final. It made my day :)

You need to re read. Where did I say 'they rule'?? They ruling aspect relates to the unelected head of state that does indeed 'rule' over you. Are you fully aware that the monarch is referred to as the 'ruling monarch'. (S)he owns you, your home/land etc. (S)he is deemed to be above the law. (S)he could murder you & would not be charged with the offence. You need to take your head out of the sand.

Do you enjoy being a 'subject' rather than a citizen.

Where did you say "they rule?". Er, right there in the first line of the post asking if we're happy having thickos ruling over us?

Ah yes the model of decorum with their chants of murderers and Roman Abramovich.

@Serenster Who do you support?

YABU, it was a very poor show of the Liverpool fans.

@maddiemookins16mum I don't know what YABU means but why stand and applaud a song representing a family that "apparently" some of them are racists and defend a "suspected" paedophile who did nothing wrong and paid £12m to the "suspected" victim so that she would go away

It makes literally zero difference to me. But you’re obviously quite stressed about it. U ok hun?

You're not wrong there!

Serf bravado.

I am not her subject and she can piss off. I am a citizen.

Why is the queen better and more entitled to stuff than you?

The only people who are “subjects” now are those whose British citizenship comes from their connections to Northern Ireland and India pre-1949. All the rest of us are citizens and have been for more than 40 years now.

@DesperateDad81 I have no idea why my personal views are relevant, but I am not a supporter of any football club in particular. I like sports, but don’t follow football based on a club allegiance.

@Serenster "You might want to do some research into Liverpool football supporters and their behaviours over the years (a subject you clearly know nothing about 😁) before you get too excited there, Tania64." for someone who doesn't follow football and apparently doesn't swear allegiance to a club please back up your claims and compare them to the rest of the world. And also tell us why you disagree with us booing instead of standing and singing a song for alleged racists and paedophiles

They'll have to do more than reword the passport blurb. If we're not thought of as subjects, why are some people still proudly singing "Long to reign over us" then and why the monarchist outrage at people who don't want to be reigned over.

Anyone know any other modern democracies whose national anthems force them to honour a single individual rather than the actual country?

Japan and the Netherlands, for two. I think it’s more a reflection of the fact that the song was adopted as a national anthem long before this was a “thing” - the tune came to be the national anthem rather than being consciously written/selected with that in mind. If you were seating a committee to compose one now, I imagine it would be quite different.

Neither the Dutch nor the Japanese one mention actual serfdom though. The Dutch one just narrates a biography and the Japanese one talks about moss and boulders.

Come on fellow peasants, it's time for a GSTQ remix.

There will always be an establishment, though. Does it matter if it's an elected one or not? The taxpayer pays for everything, most of which ends up in someone else's pocket, whether that's an elected politician or an unelected monarch. Living in a republic won't make somebody more free, wealthier or happier. This depends on other factors as well such as how the economy is regulated or how free the press is, to use just two examples.

Of course a republic wouldn't make us "happier" at first, but hopefully a bit fairer, more aware and informed, and better able to dismantle the organised crime syndicates and racketeering (not to mention the vile JS, JE type abuse) that goes on when humans are allowed to acquire and then maintain uncontrolled or obscure powers for no good reason whatsoever.

Constitutional defragging and decluttering, starting with writing an actual constitution. Long overdue.

That sounds very laudable, but does such a utopia necessarily follow dismantling a monarchical system? Or are you just exchanging one set of issues for another? It’s not like Republics are immune from people acquiring and maintaining excessive powers, after all. (I note by the by that of Transparency International’s top 20 lest perceived corrupt countries in the world, half of them are countries where the head of state is a monarch)

Good for them. What on earth is wrong with booing a state representative or the general trappings associated with that power? Some people on this thread are acting like it was a personal insult against them.

That sounds very laudable, but does such a utopia necessarily follow dismantling a monarchical system? Or are you just exchanging one set of issues for another?

Very lawyerish response, not reading the reply properly and twisting it into something else.

As I suggested in previous post, there is no utopia. There is either a gradual improvement, or gradual deterioration of a system. Or status quo, but as seen, the Windsors just keep taking, grabbing, expanding and corrupting. The rot in the RF has been identified, has spread, is continuing to spread and if the monarchists have their way, it will lead to.... a slimmed-down monarchy with the same fundamental rot-inducing flaws still in place.

Most of the monarchists won't be with us in 25 years so the RF will be gone then anyway, but if we keep the monarchy, by that time they'll have grabbed a lot more that could have been far better spent elsewhere. There is zero chance of them suddenly giving up of their own volition what they've grabbed, and their fellow humans / subjects are losing out.

Instead with a new constitutional system there is at least a chance that a few more people (and grouse) will benefit from the nation's resources.

Good for them! Oh yes good on the chavvy scum Liverpool thugs

An establishment that accused Liverpool fans of murdering their own supporters, which they backed each other into covering up for decades. The fans fought tooth and nail for justice while the British state covered up.

Liverpool fans won't forgive or forget.

Hillsborough was a tragedy.
So was the Heysel stadium disaster in 1985. The behaviour of Liverpool fans there caused 34 deaths and 600 injuries.

Winston Churchill sent gunboats up the mersey and ordered them to shoot workers in Liverpool simply because they were striking for better working conditions. Successive Tory governments have effectively tried to destroy the city. Hillsborough was one of the biggest and shameful cover-ups to ever happen in my lifetime. Boris himself has written negative articles about the people of Liverpool and there is no doubt that he sees himself as better than them.

Like it or not the Conservative party do represent the establishment and the Royal family are a huge part of that. It represents deference to privilege, the class system and the fact the system is rigged to keep us in our place. They use nationalism as a tool to brainwash which is exactly what you can see on this thread with those rushing to defend them and label Scousers as scum. Bizarre considering you'd likely have much more in common with someone from Liverpool than you would with an Eton educated billionaire.

If only more people would critically think about things and follow Liverpools lead, they might start to understand that not everyone wants to be a sycophantic forelock tugger, but want debate on the future of the monarchy, embodying vast inherited wealth and privilege.

Tories can austerity-starve people to death, embezzle billions during a pandemic and repeatedly break Covid laws whilst in office and that's fine. But if you throw an egg at one of their former leaders or boo the national anthem, you're the one who doesn't love their country. To be honest, given where we are right now as a country with the inequality, the corruption, the criminality then why don't you boo it?