If you were as fearful for your family's safety as Harry is....

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

...why would you want to have them participate in a really high-profile public bash?

Particularly one to celebrate an institution you have walked away from.

Genuinely puzzled.

It's the double standards that grate for me.

@AllThePogs

According to Robert Jenson, retired Scottish Police Protection Officers were hired to be Camilla’s security and could liaise with the police. Charles put up Camilla’s father in Clarence House (some years before the marriage) and he got security. Prince Andrew also pays for Rpya; Protection Officer’s supplied by the Yard to guard Beatrice & Eugenie. Current officers, not retired.

Just in case you missed it. So the Royal Family do use their own money to pay for serving Royal Protection Officers.

@AllThePogs

According to Robert Jenson, retired Scottish Police Protection Officers were hired to be Camilla’s security and could liaise with the police. Charles put up Camilla’s father in Clarence House (some years before the marriage) and he got security. Prince Andrew also pays for Rpya; Protection Officer’s supplied by the Yard to guard Beatrice & Eugenie. Current officers, not retired.

I couldn't find that about Prince Andrew, when I googled it I could only find that when they lost the protection he was paying for it and it was ex police officers.

I think it's a bit weird if people can just hire police officers, we haven't got enough as it is so if the rich take more than their fair share it leaves the rest of us at more risk.

I used to work in police admin and the only thing I remember the police being paid for attending was things like football matches (other sports are available) and I don't think they were given much choice about paying for it although the policing outside the grounds was free. It was very heavy on resources and often involved lots of overtime payments as there just weren't enough on duty officers to cover it. There were times when I struggled to find enough willing to do it and other times when everyone seemed to want overtime. Not sure why.

@rubicscubicle on the other thread, it was pointed out by people who know about these things that “security staff” does not mean currently employed officers, and that Pippa Middleton’s profile was high at the time of the second report (after the Cambridges wedding) and Special Protection may well have been responding to a specific threat.

So the Royal Family do use their own money to pay for serving Royal Protection Officers. Scotland does have different rules about alot of things, maybe Harry should approach them rather than the Met? That might be the answer. He should ask his dad how to do it.

His usual American security team will have no idea how to behave in UK, they’re used to very different gun laws and eg freedom to shoot trespassers

As professionals I'm sure they'd cope, though I've always wondered if they're really not allowed their firearms here, or if a blind eye is sometimes turned (anyone know?)

Back with Harry, I also wonder if he knew, or was told, that we can't buy police protection in the UK - because if he was aware, what was the point in suggesting it except to make his expectations sound more palatable?

Mostly, though, why the sudden big deal about protection considering he's made other visits without being shot at/kidnapped/whatever? I know the Jubilee's coming up, but if he's hoping to be here at all, why should the outcome be any different this time?

@ancientgran Yes Zara seems like her mother, a decent person as well. Shame she married a sleazebag, but it seems they all do in those circles.

[quote smilesy]@rubicscubicle on the other thread, it was pointed out by people who know about these things that “security staff” does not mean currently employed officers, and that Pippa Middleton’s profile was high at the time of the second report (after the Cambridges wedding) and Special Protection may well have been responding to a specific threat.[/quote]
I think it gets confusing. Maybe we need to apply for the information!

People talk about security and sometimes it seems to mean police and sometimes it doesn't.
People talk about other Royals (or non royals) getting protections but is it equivalent to what Harry wants? There is a big difference if as an example Prince Charles paid for "security" for Camilla for specific events and Prince Harry wants round the clock protection with more than one officer. Much easier and realistic to arrange one than the others.

I don't think it is easy to judge unless we have all the details and I don't suppose we ever will.

Kate had security paid for by the taxpayer before she was a member of the Royal Family

@Roussette

Your posts are getting increasingly unhinged.

I'm surprised that posts telling people they're "unhinged" meaning suffering delusions, mental health issues etc I take it? are left to stand. I question the personal nature of individuals who declare others who don't agree with them to be suffering from impaired mental health and not in their right mind.

So kind, so righteous, so decent...

[quote CarlatheJackal]@ancientgran Yes Zara seems like her mother, a decent person as well. Shame she married a sleazebag, but it seems they all do in those circles.[/quote]
He's a rugby player isn't he? I don't know anything else about him, shame if she's married a sleazebag. I think the only time I've been aware of him was at one of the Royal weddings. I think Zara was heavily pregnant and they looked very happy.

Yes, there were some sleazy antics when he was on tour with his rugby team in New Zealand. A blonde ex-gf. Perhaps he's reformed now.

@CarlatheJackal

Yes, there were some sleazy antics when he was on tour with his rugby team in New Zealand. A blonde ex-gf. Perhaps he's reformed now.

Well let's hope so.

@HoppingPavlova

I don’t get it. I would think if intelligence agencies had knowledge that he/his family was actively being targeted they would swing into action at the time, advise him and offer necessary protection? I may be extremely naive but I thought they would do this for any Joe Bloggs. I can’t see UK intelligence getting info they believe is valid and not acting on it while he/his family is in the UK as that seems odd. The point of getting intel is then acting on it when necessary, no? So not sure what the problem is with private security and UK intelligence also stepping in if they believe there is an active imminent threat?

Of course, they would. However, I don't think that Harry believes this ad hoc security is enough.

As has been said, if he has his own private security day to day, if a credible threat was uncovered it would be acted upon and really that should be sufficient.

Unfortunately, he is no longer entitled to special treatment and routinely the type of security he wants to pay for as an addon to his own team is not available to any Tom, Dick or even Harry!!

Mostly, though, why the sudden big deal about protection considering he's made other visits without being shot at/kidnapped/whatever? I know the Jubilee's coming up, but if he's hoping to be here at all, why should the outcome be any different this time?

For PP's funeral he had the sort of protection that he used to have.

For the statue unveiling he had his US security and he said he was chased by paparazzi after an event. Presumably this is why he wants the intelligence (he thinks that a police team would have known)

I know someone on this thread is a security expert. Can his US team handover to a UK team when they arrive ?

It is simply not true that if your life is at risk, you get offered police protection.
What you get is a safety plan which can mean advice to relocate, a panic alarm fitted to your house linked to a police station, a flag put on your phone number for emergency calls, etc.
You don't get police protection even if your life is at a very high risk.

London

It's not a patch on the names I've been called on these threads

Peter is the eldest grand child and Autumn is his ex wife.

He was famously very close to Prince Phillip and towards the latter part of Prince Phillips life he would visit the lodge often/weekly in the grounds of Sandringham where Philip had retired to. Autumn was also a close family member in those circles. No they weren't working senior royals because Ann had declined titles for Peter and Zara.

Peter and Autumn made money through private deals like their wedding pictures and the famous milk advert. They are "private citizens" it's no different to any other celebrity selling pictures or staring in a Gillette advert.

They are however members of the royal family and can say that they are. I don't see the issue with that. His mother is Princess Ann.

For the statue unveiling he had his US security and he said he was chased by paparazzi after an event. Presumably this is why he wants the intelligence (he thinks that a police team would have known)

Again on the other thread, someone who knows about these things said it was unlikely that he police would know about the paps and their movements. They are annoying, but not really a “threat” as such so there would be no intelligence about them. Harry really does seem to have a problem with the paps because of his mothers relationship with them, but it’s unlikely that they are our to cause him harm.

They are however members of the royal family and can say that they are. I don't see the issue with that. His mother is Princess Ann

As I said upthread, if Harry did an advert like Peter did, there would be a complete meltdown.

For the statue unveiling he had his US security and he said he was chased by paparazzi after an event. Presumably this is why he wants the intelligence (he thinks that a police team would have known)

Hmmm - does anyone know if there's any record of that beyond his own claim?

BTW Roussette, on Peter Phillips you forgot to mention the "Patron's Lunch", where he'd set up a company to trouser the proceeds and didn't even have to tender for the contract
And come to that, why were charity personnel who'd already given so much being charged to attend anyway? Since the RF take so much for themselves, wouldn't that have been a good opportunity to treat them to something nice without being expected to pay a massive £150 each?

@Roussette

They are however members of the royal family and can say that they are. I don't see the issue with that. His mother is Princess Ann

As I said upthread, if Harry did an advert like Peter did, there would be a complete meltdown.

I agree with this. Also the standing of Autumn, Peters ex-wife, seems to be based solely on the fact she socialises a lot with the Royal Family and is well thought of. Don't the PR people realise that the public doesn't care who the Royal Family hunt with or have over for supper? That does not mean the public know or even care who Autumn is.

Puzzled oh yes I forgot that! Peter Phillips was paid an eye watering £750,000 for organising a celebration for the Queen's 90th birthday. A street party with tickets at £150 each.

His fee was double the amount raised for the Queen's charities. Shocking.

There are plenty of Close Protection firms here in the UK for private hire, many are staffed with ex military para's royal marines SAS and SBS, ex CP police from the parliamentary or royal protection teams. I know many of them personally due to who I used to be married to.

Intel is shared with them via correct channels if a risk or threat is identified. The Russian Oligarch who is hiring them can then decide if they want the police to step in or of they are happy with their CP team allow them to continue with the Intel briefing.

All CP agents will know how to handle threats, escape and evade, disarm, and know what they can do within the law.

I'm not sure why Harry can't just hire a well experienced British firm if he thinks his US team can't understand the UK.

But I think he wants firearm protection, which only the RP CP team can have. Not sure how a firearm is going to help in a motorcade incident when driving away from paparazzi, a competent and skilled driver is probably of more use.

Can't be having a raging gun blaze going off round Windsor can we.

Wow that is shocking!