If you were as fearful for your family's safety as Harry is....

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

...why would you want to have them participate in a really high-profile public bash?

Particularly one to celebrate an institution you have walked away from.

Genuinely puzzled.

Which is exactly what Camilla and Kate got when they were girlfriends.

So, future Queens, which Harry/Meghan/their children never will be

I mean, whatever. Personally I want rid of all of them. I just like goading monarchists into exposing their servility and lack of logic

Except I see the suggestions are starting to creep in that Harry can't trust any of them, even the security services who AFAIK have never lost a visiting high profiler yet

To be clear, it's not the PPOs themselves Harry is wary of. He asked for the same officers, who have never leaked info about his security. It's the decision makers that seem to be the issue.

As PPs have said, if he's really so convinced that everyone's out to get him he'd do better to stay in California and invite folk to stay with him instead - except the assumption that he's safe there always surprises me since many on MN seem to regard the US as a racist, gun laden hellhole
Do you sit there thinking that Oprah, Bill Gates, James Cameron, Adele or anyone really, is in constant danger just because they are in the US. It is not the KKK that went after Harry, it was the UK neo nazis.

So, future Queens, which Harry/Meghan/their children never will be confused

They were girlfriends, not fiancé's at the time. KM and W were in an on/off relationship at the time, 3 yrs before marriage. That is like saying you give Jecca Craig protection because she is future queen.
Harry in the meantime, is an actual grandson of HMQ, son of PC, brother of W. No ifs or maybes about it.

I wonder if the RF are slightly worried about H coming over anyway and that he's going to run home shouting his mouth off about more royal secrets and conversations. If this was a RL family I know most families would be.

Vast difference between an intruder armed with a camera to one armed with anthrax or weapons.

He asked for the same officers, who have never leaked info about his security.

Have you got a source for this?

Not only does he want a bespoke armed escort but he gets to pick and choose the officers? Maybe he should also specify what cars he wants them to drive, and how he thinks they should dress?

@Roussette

I think a story being broken before they'd finished finalising and negotiating would've made a huge amount of difference

Exactly,

I think everything would have been hashed out with time. And all the details in terms of logistics.

That is why I say, the RF always has to do things with smoke and mirrors. If they had a rep, the public would have asked them to clarify these issues. They never denied the statement that H&M need security (and it was never removed from SR, as another poster on here misinforms everyone, it's still there).

They were girlfriends, not fiancé's at the time. KM and W were in an on/off relationship at the time, 3 yrs before marriage. That is like saying you give Jecca Craig protection because she is future queen.

I should think conversations were had with Charles and William about their “intentions” before expensive security was put in place . Nobody’s going to deploy PPOs to every woman a future monarch sleeps with or dates…..nor their mistresses. It’s the position that’s protected, and not because the human occupying the position is extra valuable. It’s because the disruption to British society by the assassination of someone holding that position merits the expenditure. Camilla and Kate ain’t all that, y’know

You’re very entertaining ya know!

It is not the KKK that went after Harry, it was the UK neo nazis.

Up thread somewhere, pp pointed our that these people were a very nasty bunch who had set their sites on lots of targets and that HaM just happened to be the most high profile who made the headlines. It would seem that in the case of these particular people, intelligence and security worked well because arrests were made. No one has said that Harry was not a target of this particular group. However, the threat from these people must be thought to have been neutralised as otherwise Harry would be offered security as a matter of course when he is here. I’m not sure why you bring this up every single time as a justification for him needing security when others in the know have done assessments and decided otherwise. Need for security is not based on “feelz”. Not is it based on something that has already been dealt with.

Do you sit there thinking that Oprah, Bill Gates, James Cameron, Adele or anyone really, is in constant danger just because they are in the US

Do you sit there thinking Harry is in constant danger only in the UK? I’m not sure why this group would only be able to target him whilst he is in the UK. It would be perfectly possible to target him elsewhere in these days of easy global communication.

And why would the neo nazis sacrifice the sons of the leaders if H was such a low value target. Why not send their bottom feeders.

@Roussette

I think a story being broken before they'd finished finalising and negotiating would've made a huge amount of difference

Why? How would it have changed what the government were prepared to commit to long term?

Why? How would it have changed what the government were prepared to commit to long term?

It wouldn't.

Things get leaked all the time. It's pretty much the norm. Even at high-level political summits where much more is at stake than the future of secondary royals, stuff gets out. The parties usually just issue vague statements and get on with business.

In this case, it was obvious that what H & M were demanding simply was not possible.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

In their 'statement' last month, they claimed that they had offered to pay for security at the 'Sandringham Summit', so clearly the idea that they didn't know security was going to be removed is nonsense

Actually that's a valid point, and one I hadn't thought of - yet another "inconsistency" perhaps?

Not necessarily.

Just as they offered to pay for Frogmore, they could have just decided they did not want to burden the taxpayer and have all the papers making them villains because of it, as they usually do.

The Home Office's laywers said yesterday that they did not in fact offer to pay until the story broke last month. An obvious PR ploy, as I said at the time.

Why? How would it have changed what the government were prepared to commit to long term?

It would have given H time to defend his case that they do need the security, without having to go to court.

And why would the neo nazis sacrifice the sons of the leaders if H was such a low value target

Again, no one said he was a low profile target. PP said he was not the only target. Talking about them “sacrificing the sons of the leaders” is a touch melodramatic, no?

@IcedPurple

The Home Office's laywers said yesterday that they did not in fact offer to pay until the story broke last month. An obvious PR ploy, as I said at the time.

And Harry's lawyers are saying different.

The HO is going to fail on this.
They are already stumbling around with statements that his job has something to do with this. H's lawyers will have them for breakfast.

@smilesy

And why would the neo nazis sacrifice the sons of the leaders if H was such a low value target

Again, no one said he was a low profile target. PP said he was not the only target. Talking about them “sacrificing the sons of the leaders” is a touch melodramatic, no?

Being a neo nazi is a touch melodramatic, no?

And Harry's lawyers are saying different.

Can you link to their statement to this effect? I haven't seen it.

The HO is going to fail on this.
They are already stumbling around with statements that his job has something to do with this. H's lawyers will have them for breakfast.

Let's see.

Harry's lawyer was already rebuked by the judge for seeking to bring in irrelevant nonsense about Harry ''not feeling safe' so I don't see that they're playing a blinder.

And while you're at it, could you link to the "statements that his job has something to do with this"?

@IcedPurple

He asked for the same officers, who have never leaked info about his security.

Have you got a source for this?

Not only does he want a bespoke armed escort but he gets to pick and choose the officers? Maybe he should also specify what cars he wants them to drive, and how he thinks they should dress?

Being a neo nazi is a touch melodramatic, no?

All this talk of nazis just reminds me of Harry's outfit here.

As the Home Office position includes that the offer to pay is irrelevant, as PPOs are not avaioabke for private hire (note - that's personal protection, not defraying the costs of policing of events, such as done by football clubs and certain individuals such as Kate Moss)

So I don't think timing of who said what when andto whom about an offer to pay is going to be remotely relevant, as it would not have been part of RAVEC consideration. It appears to be beyond the scope of this JD to look at the policy of the private purchase of PPO resource unless they found it so perverse that RAVEC's procedures are unfit for purpose

Maybe RAVEC procedure are indeed unfit for purpose.

How do other royals pay for PPOs and others don't.

Being a neo nazi is a touch melodramatic, no?
No. Being a neo Nazi is any ugly and unpleasant thing. As we all know. I was referring to you talking of them “sacrificing” people like it was some worthy heroic effort on their part. What was your point?

No-one pays for PPOs

As pointed out repeatedly, the ones employed to protect the Ducjess of Cornwall were retired

The Home Office position that RAVEC makes decision irrespective of cost seems a perfectly reasonable one to me