Harry to sue UK governmdnt

[Viviennemary]

This is according to the DM. Over the withdrawal of his security funding.

@Wheresmywoolyjumpers - That is a different point - & I agree if the police looking after the Queen etc hear of a credible threat to PH & family - then I think there should be a way of them liaising with his private security. I took it as he wanted to hire the Police - which I do not agree with.

@Doubleraspberry he says he has been told by the police that the risks to him and his family are high.

Providing police resource for him and his family, paidby him or not, is saying that he is worth more than the mum who has just fled a violent relationship. It’s saying he is more valuable than the kids living in that environment. It’s saying they mean more than intercepting a huge consignment of drugs inbound via County Lines.

There are a finite number of police officers with the requisite training. CP and surveillance are highly specialised roles and cannot be ring-fenced or recruited fast time.

Yes, football teams contribute to specific matches, other events can attract a fee for police presence. But private individuals cannot rent some cops. Especially those skilled in CP and surveillance.

So obvious he literally has no clue of the UK’s finances, or how things are funded, or how the ordinary Bobby gets the training to be able to protect a VIP effectively. Never has anything he’s spouted shown how privileged and clueless he is.

FWIW I think the taxpayer funding any of this, with the current pressure on Public Services is abhorrent - the RF are literally sucking funds from the paying public’s policing. If you are pro monarchy, please don’t cry when plod don’t make it a priority to look into your burglary, or harassment, or ASB. There’s only so thin you can spread the jam.

@Nesbo Your post at 19.36 is spot on.

@Nesbo

But he is not just a rich celeb for fucks sake! Our ridiculous idea that in 2022 we should still have a monarchy and a Queen in charge of our country means that his life is at risk, as is the life of his wife and children!

Our desire for a monarchy has put him and his family at risk. He has no choice in that, we have created that situation for them.

We owe him. We owe him for as long as choose to put his family on a pedestal.

Take away the monarchy, then it is his problem. But we can’t have it both ways. If we want a king, or a queen, we have to accept that we put their lives at risk, and the lives of their family. It is that simple.

Nesbo, this is absolutely right.
Of course we cant put them at risk.

From what i heard on the news it appears he is asking to pay his own bill for the police security he will recieve rather than it being left as a taxpayer bill.

Do Zara , Beatrice and Eugenia all have protection officers ? I doubt it.

No he accepted that intelligence would not be shared with his security people

Not exactly

"The duke, who is now based in California, is arguing that his private security team cannot replicate the work of police protection in the UK, with their access to local intelligence and legal jurisdiction"

Whilst he is in California, it is very unlikely that there would be any British originated intel that would be relevant to threat assessments where they are at present. It does not say that threat assessments would not be shared with his team once he was in UK (and indeed as threat assessments are routinely shared with the targets, it would indeed be wrong/unusually treat him differently; but there is no suggestion that would not happen, simply the assertion that it does not happen whilst he is resident overseas)

Legal jurisdiction presumably means power of arrest.

[quote AllThePogs]@Doubleraspberry he says he has been told by the police that the risks to him and his family are high.[/quote]
I’ve posted already at length about this. The nature of the threat matters, the credibility of the intelligence, the context, the residual risk once other security measures are taken into account. It all makes a difference.

I have quite a lot of professional knowledge in this area, although it’s not easy to discuss online. But this thread totally illustrates how hard it is to separate perception of risk from the hard facts, and what justifies particular types of security.

Harry grew up with a form of protection he is very familiar with and feels reassured by. It does not mean it’s required. The police would not leave him unprotected if they believed he needed their armed close protection.

@WhiterShadeofPale3

Do Zara , Beatrice and Eugenia all have protection officers ? I doubt it.

Harry and Meghan have had lots of hate stirred up against them by the media. I don't see lots of articles about why Zara is an awful individual because she eats avocados or wears an off the shoulder dress.

@WhiterShadeofPale3

Do Zara , Beatrice and Eugenia all have protection officers ? I doubt it.

Only when on official duties, which I suppose could be argued to include some family occasions. They don't do many - handful of charitable royal patronages and turning up at special occasions and some state ones.

Their level of protection might be the model for the visiting Sussexes

(The threat will be assessed anyhow, and shared with whatever private security they either bring or hire here).

Harry grew up with a form of protection he is very familiar with and feels reassured by. It does not mean it’s required. The police would not leave him unprotected if they believed he needed their armed close protection

Agree

@ Bunnyfuller - with respect, I don’t think it is saying that at all. I think it is saying that the danger he faces is created entirely by us, by our choice to have a monarchy. If he weren’t part of a family we put in charge of our nation we could say that his security was his own issue. But we have said he is a prince, the grandchild of a queen.

Saying that has consequences. We must either accept the cost of those consequences, or we stop proclaiming his grandmother a queen.

We owe him. We owe him for as long as choose to put his family on a pedestal

Absolutely spot on. Ex-PMs and other high profile officials get protection if the risk is perceived as high. It should go on a case by case risk assessment basis, not on a "we don't like your wife" basis.

@Doubleraspberry why do you think police would not leave him unprotected if there was a risk?
You do know this is political, and influenced heavily by the Royal Family/ If the Royal Family say no security, he won't get any, whatever the risk.

(The threat will be assessed anyhow, and shared with whatever private security they either bring or hire here).

But the whole point is that intel will not be shared. So this is not true.

Nesbo, this is absolutely right.
Of course we cant put them at risk.

But it is Harry who has decided he is at risk. The police can’t be expected to allocate resources to him just because he doesn’t “feel” safe, regardless of whether he wants to pay for it or not. There is undoubtedly a threat level but it is unlikely that it is so high that an attack on him is going to happen. As pp have said, many people don’t feel safe but they won’t get special protection. If he is with the RF he will receive protection by being with them. If he wants to swan about doing quasi royal visits (remembering that he is no longer doing his official job as a royal) then why should our finite police resources be allocated to him? I think that Harry feeling unsafe is more in relation to his dislike of the paps and press and his perception that they “killed” his mother.

@smilesy he has been told by the police the risk is high. He and his family have to travel to get to the Royal family or events like the Jubilee. They may have to stay overnight and there is no indication they have ever been invited to stay on the Royal Family estate more recently.

You do know this is political, and influenced heavily by the Royal Family/ If the Royal Family say no security, he won't get any, whatever the risk.

This is unlikely since if it came out that he had been unprotected despite a credible threat (which it would) it would not be a good look for the RF or the Government to put it mildly.

@smilesy I don't think all the Harry and Meghan haters would care.

This is the same police that had no energy to investigate Andrew and bojo lockdown drinkies....

f he wants to swan about doing quasi royal visits (remembering that he is no longer doing his official job as a royal) then why should our finite police resources be allocated to him?

Maybe he's going to charities or visiting Invictus people he knows. Swanning around... rightio ...

Maybe he is visiting his mother's grave

[quote AllThePogs]@smilesy he has been told by the police the risk is high. He and his family have to travel to get to the Royal family or events like the Jubilee. They may have to stay overnight and there is no indication they have ever been invited to stay on the Royal Family estate more recently.[/quote]
We don't know that's the case.

All public statements from relevent UK institutions have been refusals to comment on matters of this nature.

The assertions about the nature of the threats come from Harry's statement (it's quoted in the BBC link)

@Bunnyfuller - - yes you have made the point better than me - even if he pays - does he not think our stretched police force have better things to do - when he could find a very good security firm and pay for that & I am sure with his position the police would liaise if necessary when he is in the UK. & @Doubleraspberry

I think he should pay for his own & if he is at an event with the Queen etc - I am sure the police will not leave him out to dry - other than that his security & liaison should suffice.

Personally I would rather the police concentrated on their main job - not diluting their resources to look after a chap who has forsaken this country but expects what he had before.

@AllThePogs

(The threat will be assessed anyhow, and shared with whatever private security they either bring or hire here).

But the whole point is that intel will not be shared. So this is not true.

Of course it’s true. As a PP says just above, any intelligence that the police have of a threat to someone is shared with them (this would be true if it were me or you, let alone a member of the Royal Family). If the MPS believed they had intelligence that someone’s private security needed to understand - and this would be of a public order nature - of course they would share, either via the principal involved or directly with authorisation.

All protection decisions made about members of the Royal Family are made between the Home Office, the MPS and the Royal Household. If you really think the Royal Family would turn down protection offered because of a threat to the lives of any member of the Sussex family, when advised by the police and Home Office, there’s not much I can say really. But it’s vanishingly unlikely.