Prince Andrew Thread 2

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4442126-Prince-Andrew

Here is previous thread.

I've started a new thread because today and tomorrow is crucial as far as the pending civil case.

And I also had a few comments I wanted to say to posters at the end of the last thread, but it ran out.

Is it in Switzerland?

Verbier is in Switzerland, not France. I don't know what the restrictions are there.

Here we go:

“ Verbier, a village located in the canton of Valais, is the most expensive ski resort in Switzerland. ... Located in the state of Tyrol, Ischgl will cost skiers an average of 346 Euros for an overnight stay in the least expensive double room.”

Not for the normal people, then.

Well, a juror in the Maxwell trial has decided to give an interview (why on earth??) which may have just handed Gislaine grounds for a mistrial. I have read it and was 😮. Really, sometimes peoples desire for 15 mins of fame makes them completely lose their minds.

@LadyEloise1

I think flying off to Verbier is totally "tone deaf". But then only "normal" people would worry about impending court cases.

I think good on them for getting away & putting some distance between them.

@StormzyinaTCup

Well, a juror in the Maxwell trial has decided to give an interview (why on earth??) which may have just handed Gislaine grounds for a mistrial. I have read it and was 😮. Really, sometimes peoples desire for 15 mins of fame makes them completely lose their minds.

Maybe, maybe not. The US system is so different from our around jurors’ rights to speak out after the trial.

I think it they were unanimous verdicts, and the trial judge spoke to each juror after the trial according the news reports. I hope that means the verdicts are secure.

But yeah it’s still pretty especially to a UK audience.

@diddl
*"....putting some distance between them."
*
SF has time and again (and recently) spoken of PA and what a wonderful man he is.

It never was ok but It was a different time. Societies views were closer to the 60’s than where we are now.
With good girls (the ones you marry) bad girls (the ones you shag in your car).
We had page three girls, scantily clad girls at car shows and on the grid at F1. Katie price was hailed a feminist hero for getting her tits out. You’d only be believed in rape cases if it was a stranger and even then you might have dressed provocatively.

Rotherham proved people didn’t believe white western girls could be trafficked

However, it never was ok. It wouldn’t have been a police matter, it would be an eye roll and keep your daughters away from him.

I was an adult working then. It was not accepted. Yes you had rape apologists as you have them today.

No wonder Prince Andrew is such an arrogant self entitled twat when he has Mummy supporting him and bailing him out left right and centre, and the deluded Sarah continually telling him what a wonderful man he is.

Katie Prive was not hailed as a feminist hero for getting her tits out. Or only in The Sun. This is a rewriting of history.

Agree with that Royalfamilyfan. I'm nearly 50 and none of my social groups every thought Katie Price was anything other than either a canny operator or a manipulated fool. Samantha Fox was the one that foiled them by being lesbian 😂. Anyway I digress.

Love the comment from Fergie about 'Normal people', reminds me of Liz Hurley calling us 'pedestrian people' who could afford to look ugly. Makes it very clear where the average person is in the minds of the privileged.

[quote LadyEloise1]@diddl
*"....putting some distance between them."
*
SF has time and again (and recently) spoken of PA and what a wonderful man he is. [/quote]
Well yes, if I was B&E I'd have left her at home

But I agree it probably is nothing to them.

He's not facing jail over this (is he?) & if he has to pay damages they'll tell themselves that he didn't know, was duped by his "friends".

@StormzyinaTCup I have watched loads of US trials and once the jury has given a verdict the judge speaks to them and says that they are free to speak about it if they want to .

I remember when Jimmy Saville died and people said it was a different time, those disagreeing said that people would in ten years time be saying it about the hidden sex abuse and rapes then happening. They were right.
Today we have porn everywhere and on the TV scenes that 20 years ago would never have been shown. Children's clothes have become more and more sexualised - obviously not what most children wear, but there is plenty of sexualised children's clothing out there to buy.

Twenty years ago was not the dark ages. I was working with children and teenagers then. People at the time were horrified that oral sex was becoming normalised amongst children below the age of consent. There was work beginning to take place to try and make parents aware of grooming and how this happens. Seven years later Eastenders had a high profile storyline about this, one of the best representations I have seen on a general show. Everyone working with children attended safeguarding training and would have been expected to report teenagers to SS that were going to parties with much older men.
Yes often nothing happened, especially if they were rich and famous. And today, nothing usually happens either. People who are rich get away with child exploitation, rape and abuse every day. That is not new.

And while The Sun declared Katie Price a feminist, everyone else scoffed. It is the equivalent today of high profile "sex workers" saying that having sex with men for money is feminism. That also appears in newspapers and in far more "respectable" newspapers than The Sun. It is still rubbish and most people know it.
I agree Samantha Fox being a lesbian is not something we foresaw back then.

@RoyalFamilyFan

I was an adult working then. It was not accepted. Yes you had rape apologists as you have them today.

You can argue about whether it's only within "living memory" that women have got the vote.

You can't argue that within living memory rape inside marriage was legal. In fact it may have been the 1990s.

@RoyalFamilyFan

Katie Prive was not hailed as a feminist hero for getting her tits out. Or only in The Sun. This is a rewriting of history.

It’s not rewriting my history. Maybe not in all circles but as a 15-20 year old girl at that time she was for everyone I knew. Magazine shelves were packed with lads mags, I had friends approached to be in them with spit or swallow being a legitimate question. Whilst I appreciate this is anecdotal Out of 10 of my friends 9 had been seriously sexually assaulted or raped. Not one had reported it. It was part and parcel of that era and going out clubbing. I didn’t go to Uni, I was working in a male orientated industry and married middle aged men hitting on the young teens was just met with eye rolls and “Ohh ignore him”.

@Vapeyvapevape - totally understand that the system is different and Jurors are allowed to speak after the verdict (which from a UK viewpoint seems odd by that's the way it works in the US), it was more a case of what he was prepared to publicly divulge in relation to his own past personal experience (and he alluded to the fact that he wasn't the only juror who had experienced similar) this, I'm led to believe, was a specific question that was asked in the preliminary 50 point questionnaire when trying to find suitable candidates.

How much weight a 'yes' answer would have carried in relation to answers given for the other 49 questions I have no idea.

@Vapeyvapevape

PA's finances should be looked into, how did he or who did he get the money from to buy the chalet.

Absolutely agree.

Last we heard of it the queen wasn't paying off the debt to avert the impending court case and the that a buyer had been found which would leave things all square.

Now we have the grifting Fergie ensconced in it and a gurning PA driving round in brand new resprayed Bentleys and top of the range Landrovers.

Today we have porn everywhere and on the TV scenes that 20 years ago would never have been shown

That’s funny. I think there’s less sex references now on tv than then.

@EvilPea It explains it if you were a teenager. I am sure teenagers now are just the same in the main, with anal being the main question.
Trust me adults did not largely think the same and were horrified. If there had been a mumsnet then there would have been threads of mums horrified by the things you saw as normal. Yes lads mags were normal and are not now, but that is because the internet and porn are now normal with most teenagers seeing it as perfectly normal to watch pretty hardcore porn. Most parents would be horrified at how young children on average start seeing porn now (12 years old), and how hardcore and abusive it tends to be.
And it was the same as when I was young and will be the same now in terms of the number of girls raped and sexually assaulted young. And the vast majority never report it. It is sadly no different now.
So I am not disputing that things were bad then, but they are no different now or worse.

@StormzyinaTCup I've just read his account and I hope he did answer all the questions truthfully, jury selection is quite robust in the US , would he have been vetoed for admitting he was a victim too ? Hmmm

@EvilPea

Today we have porn everywhere and on the TV scenes that 20 years ago would never have been shown

That’s funny. I think there’s less sex references now on tv than then.

I think the 9 pm watershed is honoured more. But that is a laugh when most kids don't watch much live TV. But what would have once got an 18 certificate now would get a 15. And dramas are full of unnecessary sex scenes and full frontal. I know it was before your time, but the full-frontal of the male lead in Life of Brian in 1979 was shocking and there was a lot of media controversy about it. Now it looks like nothing. Every decade TV programmes and films have become more explicit. Game of Thrones for example shocked me.

Love Island and Naked Attraction would not have been on TV 20 years ago, nor would Ann Summers shops be a part and parcel of many high streets or malls in the UK, or Boots selling vibrators and other sex aids. I think the point is that sex has become much more 'mainstream' - for want of a better word!