BBC The Princes and the Press

[coniferforest]

Did anyone watch this last night? About William and Harry and their different approaches to the press. Last night was part 1 of 2.

When have they written an 'awful book'

Isn't Harry meant to be writing a book? I can't remember when it's due out. Whether it's awful or not remains to be seen, but the tabloids and Mumsnet are bound to go into meltdown on publication day!

[quote AnnunciataZ]@Noeuf She wore a variation of a salwar khameez for pretty much every event she attended! She does tend to do that though - if it's Ireland she wears green, if it's Scotland it has to be tartan etc. Maybe it's an unofficial royal rule![/quote]
Well, the Queen has often worn the colours of the places she visited, e.g. green to Ireland , red and white in Canada, and Kate is no doubt advised to do the same. It's a compliment to the hosts, as is speaking a few words of their own language.

It's supposed to be end of next year but posters have already decided what's in it and are in advance in meltdown mode!

I agree on the graphs Annunciata. It seemed like the tiara story (which I think was just that... a story) precipitated the endless negative press. And for that we have to thank the glorious Camilla Tominey who was positively salivating at being questioned about her sources and puffing herself up in not saying who they were. She is responsible for a lot.

Also interesting was the Anna Pasternak story in Tatler. I remember that... the Palace were furious about it and months of legal battles followed. The story was changed/edited. Is that 'whining' from Kensington Palace I ask myself... seems like it's OK for K&W to have a meltdown about a story but not H&M.

God, Camilla T was just awful and her dislike of the Sussexes really came across as personal, unlike some of the others interviewed. Even Rachel Johnson was comparing favourably with her by the second episode!

Having said that, hasn't Camilla been vile about Kate too? Or is that a different Camilla? (Obv not her SMIL!)

being questioned about her sources and puffing herself up in not saying who they were Long ago, if I remember correctly, a man called Brendan Mulholland was sent to prison for refusing to reveal his sources. Oh, another google for me.

@OverByYer

Yes I thought Scobie was very measured. Harry really is an angry man though.

They all came across very measured didn't they. None of the 'frothing' often associated with any discussion about the Sussexes. Amol Rajan is a very likeable chap too, he seemed to be trying not to laugh at the gossipy, ironically tabloid nature of the content though.

Didn't tell us anything we didn't already know did it?

Once again it would seem odd to have a lawyer from the Sussexes side declaring innocence when there are still ongoing investigations going on.

What I also find interesting is this...

CTominey said last night she was enquiring about "how it was going " around the H&M wedding preparations when she got the "Meghan made kate cry" story. Then why did she publish that so called story 6 months later?
Dan W kept the tiara story for 6 months, Thomas kept meghans letter for 6 months, Camilla kept this story for 6 months. The bullying complaint was made after 6 months. Seems to me like that was the point a decision was made.

That will be disputed on here of course. But it's an opinion I have. The negativity ramped up at a certain point for a certain reason.

Amol Rajan is a very likeable chap too, he seemed to be trying not to laugh at the gossipy, ironically tabloid nature of the content though

Yes. He was measured, he didn't lead the interviewees. He just let them talk and asked appropriate questions at the appropriate time.

OverByYer Yes I thought Scobie was very measured.

I thought he was measured and I liked his way of speaking, (which is nothing to do with the content of what he said, I know, but he was pleasantly listenable.)

Harry really is an angry man though,

I heard a person from the press reply to a question about the royals and the press. It was in an informal setting. I cannot remember the exact words, but the gist was, "Harry is always angry with us, William is sometimes, even Charles on the odd occasion, Catherine is always nice with us, Meghan is nice and Camilla (i.e. D of C) is -pause-the best thing that ever happened to Charles.

I liked the bit where the press said W had thanked them all on the tour they were on. Must've been a nice change from being sneered and glowered at by Harry. Can't the Sussexes see these are real people, they are loved!, they are authentic fgs. I mean show a bit of support for folk struggling to make a living.

These aren't the paps from the 80s chasing his dm.

Yes, up to a point Janiie. But I think it's a battle. What choice does W have but to curry favour with the press? Everything depends on it, for him and Kate. I think it was a battle between the two households and I think last night's programme showed that.

Harry obviously has a huge amount of anger towards the press because of his Mother and yes this isn't the 80s but no one can deny the press were horrible to his wife. And yes I've heard it all before with Fergie, Camilla etc... but this is his wife, his family and I'm not sure I'd be all smiles and pleasant with a group of people running down my other half.

@Roussette

What I also find interesting is this...

CTominey said last night she was enquiring about "how it was going " around the H&M wedding preparations when she got the "Meghan made kate cry" story. Then why did she publish that so called story 6 months later?
Dan W kept the tiara story for 6 months, Thomas kept meghans letter for 6 months, Camilla kept this story for 6 months. The bullying complaint was made after 6 months. Seems to me like that was the point a decision was made.

That will be disputed on here of course. But it's an opinion I have. The negativity ramped up at a certain point for a certain reason.

I doubt you’ll agree with my opinion either, but for what it’s worth I think it seems pretty clear that the royal journalists knew that all was not sunny in the Windsor family around its newest addition from very early on - the pre-wedding falling out between Harry and William, the stress over the Markle family etc etc. but at the time knew well that the public for whom they write stories like a romance and a royal wedding, so “let’s focus on the positives for the masses!”

Later on when the indications that all was really not well continued but strengthened (the staff turnover, the Royal foundation split etc) and Meghan and Harry made it clear that they had no intention of toeing the normal family line of pretending to play nicely with the media, they collectively shrugged their shoulders and said “okay then, no kid gloves from us, we have a stock of stories we’ve been sitting on, but no more”. And both sides have escalated the hostilities ever since…

@Roussette hi Roussette, just to be clear my comment about announcing being pregnant at Eugenie’s wedding wasn’t intended as a dig or ‘fact’. It was in response to posters saying that there was a turn around the Australia tour. The tour was considered a success but I do remember at the time there being a few small negative articles about it around the same time
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45867742.amp

And believe me I don’t read the DM. Not since I discovered the death of a beloved friend by reading through their news site and being greeted by the image of her unblurred corpse. And when I went to complain about this I was told I wasn’t in a position to complain or make decisions about the photo because I wasn’t a relative and therefore had no right to make them take them down. Her poor parents were too distraught and trying to make arrangements to get her body back to the UK to fight them. I will never forgive them for that.

Serenster Yes could be. Or maybe it was decisions from the Palace, who knows.

SnottyLottie that's awful, the story with your friend. How sad and how shocking.

Britain is/was racist - no two ways. A woman of colour and American to boot was a target. Gransnet,as an example, was ridiculous. The usual diatribes about someone no one has met. And certainly doesn't know.
But I feel the royals should be able to ride it out. Don't read the blooming papers FGS. I thought the same with Diana. Lead a protected private life. Ignore the nastiness everyone will get sick of reading it eventually.
Oprah was a mistake. No going back for a long time after that, sadly.

Sorry I went a little off topic there.

I think Scobie came off really well and balanced in his interview. I thought he would be very gushing of H&M after reading a few of his articles but I’m pleasantly surprised. I really appreciated how he discussed feeling pressured to pick a team. It really resonated with me. I like aspects of both families and dislike other aspects. Why do I have to pick a side? We’re all human and we all have good points and bad points. Just because you like one doesn’t mean that my positive feelings for the other aren’t valid any more. But I suppose if you’re in the media it’s the way you spin stories to generate interest and cash.

It was a very interesting documentary although I have to admit the men in the family don’t come out looking great, do they? Harry seems very angry, William seems manipulative and Charles doesn’t seem to care about anything unless it reflects negatively on himself. That’s just my opinion though.

'I don’t read the DM. Not since I discovered the death of a beloved friend by reading through their news site and being greeted by the image of her unblurred corpse'

Really sorry about your friend and I'm not a dm fan but they don't post images of corpses. Some of the global press post graphic images but the BP would not post unblurred images of bodies.

'I think Scobie came off really well and balanced in his interview'

He is very charming and articulate I'll give him that. Shame they didn't add a bit after recent revelations and ask him why he lied repeatedly and said they didn't collude with Finding Freedom when we now know they did. Just affects credibility really when we know he's said a load of bollocks before. But yes he has a lovely speaking voice.

I wonder if it was because H&M were a victim of their own success and the tour was the final straw? Maybe the other households were less than pleased with the attention the spare and his wife were getting over the heir and the future queen and that's why things started to sour then.

I definitely think there was an element of this. It's a tricky line but you want them to be a success but not outshine & there was a huge buzz about them. I'm not particularly interested in the RF but saw some of the press & remember being impressed at how M was handling it all as the pressure must have been immense. There was that amazing photo with the blue dress & the rain & did pick up a mag to read about them which I've never done with the RF.

The sad thing is I think the RF would have more longevity if H&M had stayed & there was more of all 4 of them collaborating etc. It made them seem more modern. Not helped by the pandemic but I think they seem less irrelevant now.

They did OW to tell”their” truths which wouldn’t know “the truth” in any shape or form. So many of their “truths” have been debunked as at best over reactions and fabrications and at worst out and out lies.

Logically both sides have their "truths" & the real truth is somewhere in the middle as lack of communication & hurt feelings blur truths.

'The sad thing is I think the RF would have more longevity if H&M had stayed & there was more of all 4 of them collaborating etc. '

Totally agree they were a massive asset, sadly Harry and his ego would never have settled for number 2 status. He wanted to run his own show and wasn't allowed.

It really is all such a shame. Family relationships can be complex and toxic, despite all the privilege they are the same as the rest of us in that regard.

Not write awful books about it and whine on national TV. For Gods sake go off and be happy and live your lives! They aRe so fortunate.

Surely they did it for money/security & wanted to get their side across. Now I'm sure they don't need the money but I've not grown up in immense wealth & privilege so my needs are probably less.

I honestly think it was never going to work. There is too much going on behind the scenes... too much of the press pitting one woman against the other, one couple against the other. Add into that Harry's huge dislike of the press, and William's protection of the RF at all costs and it was never going to be.

However, I have disagreed for years about Harry wanting number 1 status. I honestly honestly don't think this. I just think he was too damaged by what happened to his Mother, and him and Meghan wanted to do it their way and given the RF haven't changed much since 1950, it was never going to work. If there is a middle management team, i.e. some of the courtiers, they ought to be changing and refreshing them. They need new forward thinking people in there.

If only, the RF had tried to modernise a bit a long time ago, it might've been a very different story.