Meghan court case live today

[callmeadoctor]

@EdithWeston

I honestly don't know why she sued. It was such an unimportant forgotten letter, which didn't even show her in a bad light. But her actions have now exposed a lot about their motivations which will come back to haunt them again and again

Because on a narrow copyright case she had a very good case, which she ought to win. But her/her friends putting part of text into the public domain has complicated it considerably, and AN are going to want to have that thrashed out thoroughly.

And yes, what is coming out is unfortunately not enhancing their reputation.

I think this could well end up an example where you can win a case but still lose.

These revelations do not reflect well on the couple regardless of the outcome of the legal proceedings.

I do wonder how much the RF's attitude to H&M has hardened as time has gone on with each additional revelation (interviews, books etc) and if that was a factor in JK's decision to abandon his neutrality.

@EdithWeston

As said, though, I'd no more expect to see her in a courtroom than I would Andrew ... the palace wouldn't like what could easily follow, so I'll eat my hat if it happens

She'll have to appear won't she - because she's the one bringing the case

She can drop the case any time she wants, but she’ll have to pay ANLs costs is she does so. They will considerable by now. And ANL could always ask the court for costs on an imdemnity basis, which means she’d have to pay them back every penny they’ve spent. Thta’s not common, but does happen in cases where the claimant is caught out misleading the court.

If she does proceed with it she will have to give evidence about how she drafted ther he letter and her intentions at the time. If she doesn’t she’s effectively handing a win to ANL as she won’t have proved her own case.

It was shortly after that he resigned and moved on. So, he decided to come off the fence to defend himself and his staff. (And possibly to settle scores.)

Not sure it's possible to say he's moved on when he's working for the Cambridge's???

Different role yes, but very much part of the firm...

I can't see how she can lose the appeal. Whatever her manipulations, she sent a private letter and the Mail reproduced it in full without her permission. It won't ever go to trial.

Unfortunately for her, though, people won't remember the case, they'll just remember the fact that she misled the court and she attempted to 'pull at heartstrings'. Her integrity has taken a huge knock.

On the other hand the RF will be delighted. Both H&M will have been discredited whilst a full trial, and inevitable discoveries, will have been avoided. Win-win for the Palace.

@madisonbridges

I can't see how she can lose the appeal. Whatever her manipulations, she sent a private letter and the Mail reproduced it in full without her permission. It won't ever go to trial.

Unfortunately for her, though, people won't remember the case, they'll just remember the fact that she misled the court and she attempted to 'pull at heartstrings'. Her integrity has taken a huge knock.

On the other hand the RF will be delighted. Both H&M will have been discredited whilst a full trial, and inevitable discoveries, will have been avoided. Win-win for the Palace.

Indeed.

Goes to my post above re: you can still lose even if you win.

I remember reading that after the discussion about whether the queen agreed to the use of Lilibet, the palace decided they were going to start challenging H and M rather than ignoring them. Maybe this is part of the context for JK to speak out.

She’s really ending up with egg on her smug face isn’t she.

Goes to my post above re: you can still lose even if you win.

And that's why the RF don't sue.

'And that's why the RF don't sue.'

Yes a dignified silence always wins in the end.

@Youngatheart00

She’s really ending up with egg on her smug face isn’t she.

Aw, I think that's a bit harsh, really. Because of her age and wanting to start a family, they rushed into marriage so she didn't have time to assess the dynamics of her position. She just didn't understand what was going on and was totally out if her depth. She had an idea of what it was like to be a princess that was never grounded in reality. And then she had a guy, nice but not the sharpest tool, who never understood how privileged and protected he was, advising her on what they should do. She just never stood a chance.

I’m struggling to think of a famous person who sued a newspaper and it turned out to be a good idea. Even if they win, a lot of dirt gets raked up in the process.
It’s beyond credibility to say you don’t recall something you exchanged several emails about.

Max Mosley won against the News of The World. They paid (blackmailed) a sex worker to take photos of him at a private orgy he had engaged her to attend, then published the photos characterising it as a “Nazi Themed Orgy”.

He sued, saying they were breaching his privacy as it was not an illegal activity and all involved were fully consenting adults. He also denied it was Nazi themed. The Nazi bit was the only thing the News of the World could rely on to argue the expose was in the public interest (based on the fact his dad was Sir Oswald Mosley, notorious leader of the British Unoin of Fascists). They couldn’t prove it, and so he won his case.

(In that case the damage had already been done though - the expose had already been published. Max Moseley just had to deal with the fallout amongst his friends and family through admitting yes, he did enjoy sex romps).

I feel for Thomas Markle receiving a letter addressed to him from his daughter that was clearly not intended for him. He had a quiet life before Meghan met Harry.

Elton John was the other one I thought of, winning his case against the Sun for their totally untrue story of him sleeping with 'rent boys' - as they were then called - in the 80s. Many people advised him to not take it to court as they'd dig up as much other dirt as they could. However, Elton, for all his faults, is pretty candid about many of them anyway. He knew it wasn't true and that the paper had no evidence for it. Perhaps most importantly, the public loved him.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/profile-just-don-t-lie-about-him-s-all-elton-john-still-standing-after-all-his-trials-1502423.html

@stairway

I feel for Thomas Markle receiving a letter addressed to him from his daughter that was clearly not intended for him. He had a quiet life before Meghan met Harry.

yes

@Serenster

(In that case the damage had already been done though - the expose had already been published. Max Moseley just had to deal with the fallout amongst his friends and family through admitting yes, he did enjoy sex romps).

That’s the unfair thing, the “apology” only goes so far. I was 16 when this happened (I’ve just googled the year) and don’t think I’d ever really heard of Max Mosley before - the only thing I know him for is “nazi themed orgy” even though I sort of also know he sued and won but I don’t know the details. If you’d asked me before I’d read your comment, I don’t think I’d have been able to say for sure whether the nazi bit was made up or not.

Of course Meghan isn’t suing to get a lie corrected, so it’s a different aim.

The problem with Max Mosley's case was that initially only the readers of the News of the World knew and there were always so many lurid stories that it was soon forgotten. When he sued, suddenly everyone knew that Max Mosley held Nazi orgies. And then in the course of the case he admitted to a life long history of sadomasichism. So even if the Nazi bit wasn't true (and I don't know if it was or it wasnt), it's such a vivid image that it's embedded in people's minds, so we believe it to be true.
He won his case but did he really come out of it a winner? A pyrrhic victory, maybe

Often the public only hear of allegations when a celebrity sues or they’d heard but forgotten. Therefore, prolonged litigation keeps a negative story in the public’s head. I honestly would have forgotten about that letter if it wasn’t brought up repeatedly. I also would have forgotten all about tiara gate or tears over bridesmaids dresses.

Aw, I think that's a bit harsh, really. Because of her age and wanting to start a family, they rushed into marriage so she didn't have time to assess the dynamics of her position. She just didn't understand what was going on and was totally out if her depth. She had an idea of what it was like to be a princess that was never grounded in reality. And then she had a guy, nice but not the sharpest tool, who never understood how privileged and protected he was, advising her on what they should do. She just never stood a chance.

The problem is that these revelations make that narrative increasingly implausible.

The persona of an unprepared naive woman overwhelmed by circumstances and manipulated by couriers simply can't be reconciled with the sophistication/effort/planning/co-opting of staff the published emails evidence.

*courtiers not couriers

@madisonbridges

The problem with Max Mosley's case was that initially only the readers of the News of the World knew and there were always so many lurid stories that it was soon forgotten. When he sued, suddenly everyone knew that Max Mosley held Nazi orgies. And then in the course of the case he admitted to a life long history of sadomasichism. So even if the Nazi bit wasn't true (and I don't know if it was or it wasnt), it's such a vivid image that it's embedded in people's minds, so we believe it to be true. He won his case but did he really come out of it a winner? A pyrrhic victory, maybe

I read an interview with him in “So you’ve been publicly shamed” by Jon Ronson - excellent book btw. He didn’t care. That’s why he took it to court, he shrugged off the shame and challenged the lies. I found myself reluctantly admiring his stance on how he chose to dealt with the aftermath, if not his penchant for dodgy orgies. Just googled him actually and saw that he died in May this year.

@Gilmorehill

Often the public only hear of allegations when a celebrity sues or they’d heard but forgotten. Therefore, prolonged litigation keeps a negative story in the public’s head. I honestly would have forgotten about that letter if it wasn’t brought up repeatedly. I also would have forgotten all about tiara gate or tears over bridesmaids dresses.

Like Jason Donovan suing a newspaper in the 1990s for suggesting he was gay. For years afterwards Clive James used to mockingly refer to him as “Jason Donovan, the world’s most famous straight man”.

I think she was naive in regards to lacking experience in how the RF worked so she really didn't understand the institution. Kate had had a long time to stand back, work out who to trust, who to listen to, to know keeping shtum was sometimes best, to learn why the RF held their peace. She took time to meet all the family and learn how to handle different situations.
Meghan just had Harry. She hardly knew anyone in the family, they isolated themselves, they found themselves at war with people around them so she had no one to trust but Harry, who actually comes across as thin skinned and paranoid.
I don't think she's naive as in an innocent or ignorant person. She knew how to scheme, how to try to manipulate and control. As an actress she'd have learned how to do that for her career. She thought she could just transfer those skills across but she just didn't understand the RF institution and the public attitude towards it. I think she's badly misjudged the whole situation.

Thomas Markle is currently giving a live interview to the charming & delightful Dan Wootton on GB News…