Prince Andrew thoughts

[Reduceddutiesboredom]

Maybe he’ll stop hiding behind his mummy now…

Why2Why. That’s not how I read pp’s posts at all. I don’t think they were saying that Andrew shouldn’t be held to account, they were saying that other people who were involved should be held to account as well and was wondering why they weren’t. That’s how I read it.

Yes they should all be held accountable.
But I would be glad if Andrew is held accountable. I doubt he will be though. But I will keep reminding people on social media what he did and how the Queen has defended him, as long as I am alive.

Is it only in the courts that people have the ability and presence of mind to examine issues on their merit?

That question sounds really pompous, but I'm sure you didn't mean it to. This is an internet chat forum!!! We can "examine" issues however we want; you are also free to scroll past or start your own thread for lawyers, if you need to control the posting style. The point of this thread is "thoughts" about PA, not guilt or innocence.

Legally guilty and actually guilty are often two different things and as mumsnet is definitely not a court, I dgaf - and it's irrelevant - whether PA is technically guilty in the case before the NY court. We all know he's a massive sleaze, and is involved at our expense with dangerous and shady people, who are very relevant to the subject of this thread.

Anyway if you need evidence of guilt, look no further than the Panorama interview. He might as well have been wearing a t-shirt saying "I did it and don't care".

If a crime has been committed by PA why isn't there a criminal trial. Rather than this suing for damages. I got the impression she would settle out of court but he refused. Thats from what I read so not saying this is right.

People like Andrew will always expect to get a free pass

Exactly!! It's disgraceful that he's got/will probably get away with it. Equally disgraceful that so many others - directly connected to him - will get away with it also.

I'm so fed up of posters shouting conspiracy theorist at anyone who asks questions.

But I will keep reminding people on social media what he did and how the Queen has defended him, as long as I am alive

Ditto, me too julieca

He will never return from this and will forever be known for his awful actions

Anyway if you need evidence of guilt, look no further than the Panorama interview. He might as well have been wearing a t-shirt saying "I did it and don't care".

This!!!

If a crime has been committed by PA why isn't there a criminal trial.

Politics, aka corruption.

Sorry I find it hard to believe that someone is so naive that they think people like Prince Andrew would be treated by the courts like the rest of us.
Prince Andrew refused to speak to investigators who flew over from the US. Without being able to interview him, a case was never going to be strong enough to take a key member of the Royal Family to court.

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

If a crime has been committed by PA why isn't there a criminal trial.

Politics, aka corruption.

I think it was considered but that it would just duplicate the investigation in the US.

Evidence produced in this civil trial may result in a criminal prosecution. This is one of the reasons PA is fighting it so hard.

The queen hasn't defended him she has supported him like any parent would

I think one of his problems is that the more his legal team pushes the idea that Giuffre was trafficking girls herself/was paid off, the less easy it is to push the idea that PA had no idea what was going on.

@Theunamedcat

The queen hasn't defended him she has supported him like any parent would

Yes - but the problem is they aren’t just any family.

Most families don’t claim a special status that gives them the right to represent the armed forces on 11th November.

It does seem to me those girls were lured into what was virtually prostitution with the promises of money, gifts, luxury living and holidays. That is certainly exploitation. Its a vile business.

@Theunamedcat

The queen hasn't defended him she has supported him like any parent would

She has argued every step of the way for him not to be sidelined and shown clearly she supports him. Lots of parents would not do that.

The queen hasn't defended him she has supported him like any parent would

Of course she's defended him!
Two days after carcrash interview she takes him to Church with him sat in the car grinning like a jackass.
After all the JE stuff came out she awards him with the highest honour, the Knight of the Grand Cross, for services.
And so on... she immediately jumps to his rescue to pay his legal bills, horrendously expensive daily.

If that's not defending his actions, I don't know what is.

You can’t separate the public Royal family from the private Royal family. Most people don’t follow the day to day activities of the Queen. They like to see the family on the balcony, the family going to church, the birth announcements, pictures of the children, the weddings, the first days at school, the funerals.

I think that creates a very unhealthy dynamic, (the public claimed ownership of Diana’s death) but it’s also central to their place in society.

There is no political will on either side to prosecute him now, and I can't see there being any in the future. One rule for PA, another rule for Julian Assange. They just make the charges and rules up as they go along.

There is no political will to take on the Royal Family and that is what a prosecution would mean with the Queen clearly defending him.

I would guess that at the moment, with the Queen’s health being a concern, no U.K. politician/judge/police would touch this with a barge pole.

Yes but that is wrong. I dont become immune from a court case because my dad is ill.

Prince Andrew refused to speak to investigators who flew over from the US. Without being able to interview him, a case was never going to be strong enough to take a key member of the Royal Family to court

I have no idea where you are getting this from, but it never happened. The FBI have never flown over to the UK to interview Prince Andrew.

They don’t have the power to do this in any event. The process would be for the US either to extradite a suspect to the US and then use their powers in their own jurisdiction (Prince Andrew isn’t a suspect, formally, in any event so can’t be extradited). In cases where they aren’t yet at the stage where they can seek an extradition they would have to request the relevant UK Police Force use their powers to interview Prince Andrew (there are various treaties and Memoranda of Understandings that provide for such mutual assistance in criminal cases) with the FBI either sitting in, but not asking questions, or getting the transcript afterwards. That definitely hasn’t happened here.

@merrymouse

I would guess that at the moment, with the Queen’s health being a concern, no U.K. politician/judge/police would touch this with a barge pole.

The likely criminal case would be in the US though - the Metropolitan Police have reviewed the case against Andrew at least twice now and declined to take any action as it would be so unlikely he could be successfully prosecuted (for legal and evidential reasons which we have discussed at length before, not because of who his mother is).

I can’t quite see why the US prosecutors and courts would be so reluctant to act against someone who is not politically significant in their own country. To be honest, US law enforcement is highly political and getting big scalps is seen as desirable, so it’s perhaps more likely they’d go after him?

@Serenster where I got it from? From the newspapers. I don't know if the Royal Family have had articles removed from google for UK media. There is still this one in French newspaper saying Andrew refused to co operate.
www.france24.com/en/20200609-us-prosecutors-seeking-interview-with-prince-andrew-over-epstein-probe-say-he-is-not-cooperating

"The US has demanded that Prince Andrew be handed over to American police to be questioned about his links to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, according to reports.

America’s Department of Justice (DOJ) has formally told the Government that the Duke of York is now part of a criminal investigation. The Duke, 60, has strongly denied any wrongdoing but has not faced questions from US prosecutors.

Now, the US appears to have bypassed Buckingham Palace by filing a ‘mutual legal assistance’ request to the Home Office last month, The Sun claimed. Such requests are only used in criminal cases under a legal treaty with the UK.

That could force the Royal to appear as a witness in a UK court within months – either voluntarily, or by being summoned from the US’s DOJ. A source told The Sun: ‘It’s a huge statement of intent from the US and it moves Andrew into the realms of a criminal investigation. It’s also frankly a diplomatic nightmare.’"

metro.co.uk/2020/06/07/usa-demands-prince-andrew-handed-face-questions-epstein-12818677/