The "Royal Racist"

[GrimDamnFanjo]

The discussion is still rumbling on...
Over on the Daily Mail site there's yet another article about whether H&M will name names.
This I found was interestingly written as it only seems to mention one other family member...

If Meghan sees herself as a black woman or woman of colour, that’s what she is.

Well she didn't and doesn't because she's not stupid.

www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/news/a26855/more-than-an-other/

I called her a light skinned black woman I think, which she is.
Will you also call her a white woman? If not why? Why are you denying half of who she is?

Woman of colour is different from Black woman. Anyone who isn't white can call themselves a person of colour. It isn't interchangeable with Black.

@TheOneDropRuleIsRacist

Woman of colour is different from Black woman. Anyone who isn't white can call themselves a person of colour. It isn't interchangeable with Black.

But it is her black heritage that makes her a woman of colour. Does Meghan have no right to define herself? She has always been proud of her black heritage and has never referred to herself as white.

All of this would not be an issue if society was not racist and white people did not create this history of othering people who are descendants of black people.

aninjusticemag.com/abolish-the-one-drop-rule-9b4acb380832

Anyone who doesn't think they're perpetuating racism by calling a mixed race/biracial person Black, read up on Jim Crow ant one drop rule. It's not about "identifying" as anything or calling yourself what you want. You're knowingly or unknowingly upholding a racist structure.

@why2why I've given you a link showing how she identifies.

An anti-black society do not get to dictate to people with black heritage how to describe themselves or how strongly they identify with their black heritage.

@StormzyinaTCup all your speculation about why this and why that is irrelevant. That kind of logic is often used to discredit rape victims and other victims of crime who, for whatever reason, decided to report the crime many years later. Who knows why he chewed on it for a while. How ever much you want to question his or her behaviour, it does not mean it did not happen.

Not even remotely comparable. Very different situations.

In the particular example we are discussing here I don't think my logic is too 'off' or controversial tbh. But rest assured my logic process is not set in stone and then reapplied regardless of the situation.

Why would you need to 'chew on it'? He has done two self awareness courses, he should not be shy on pulling the person up on it (especially when it's clear he doesn't have much respect for his family anyway).

I have no qualms about discussing and questioning a persons motives/behaviours when they put themselves on a very public platform and make a serious accusation with the vaguest of detail (and some quite obvious holes along the way). It doesn't mean the remark didn't happen but it certainly leaves plenty of room to go ....mmmmm🧐

Being proud of your black heritage (as she should) and being a woman of colour because she has a Black mum still doesn't make her just "Black". Identifying with your Black side more still doesn't make a mixed race person just "Black". You can be a mixed race person who identifies more with your Black side; a mixed race person who is proud of your Black heritage, etc. Seeing the world from the eyes of racists and upholding that structure doesn't help to tear down racism.

@Why2why

An anti-black society do not get to dictate to people with black heritage how to describe themselves or how strongly they identify with their black heritage.

It is actually the anti-black society who dictated how people with Black heritage get to define themselves, hence mixed race people must be called Black. So if you want to rally against that anti-black rule, doing the opposite is where to start, not accepting it. Again, look at the links and you can also google a lot more.

We may all be in the same boat, but we're not fighting an equal battle. The poster was right that had Meghan been a Black woman or a dark-skinned mixed race woman (Meghan isn't dark skinned unless you're only comparing her to pale skinned/white people
From a black pov, she isn't dark), she may not have gotten her foot through that door.

aninjusticemag.com/quit-calling-biracial-people-black-fce55d6a81b0

If an person with even the most distant Irish or Scottish ancestry is "allowed" to call themselves so, perhaps let's not police whether a mixed race person wants to call themselves black, eh?

I don't care what people of different ethnic origins call themselves. There's no anti- anything to fight in that regard.
I care about anti-blackness and the replacement of Black people when there's space for all of us to be present, still be who we are and have our voices heard. You can call yourself what you want as long as you know what you're upholding. You can't choose to uphold a structure on one side because it benefits you somehow while trying to tear it down on the other side.

I've supplied a link that Meghan calls herself biracial or mixed race so that's all I have to say on that.

Why would you need to 'chew on it'?

I can quite imagine why. No doubt, lots of people will disagree but... he could've heard this comment, he could've pulled the person up on it, (you don't *know he didn't) and gone away to chew on it.

Then as things progress and time passes and it's really not going right, the press are foul with their racism, the courtiers are sniffy, and H&M are talking about their future in the RF and how difficult it is for her, and at that point it could come out.

Surely, surely you've all been in the position of hearing something unpleasant, putting it to one side because either you hope it's a one off or you don't want to hurt the person it's directed at. Then that person starts talking to you about how difficult they are finding a particular situation... you talk at length and it comes out.

I don't understand posters' obsession about when he told her.

@TheOneDropRuleIsRacist

Well she didn't and doesn't because she's not stupid.

www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/news/a26855/more-than-an-other/

I called her a light skinned black woman I think, which she is.
Will you also call her a white woman? If not why? Why are you denying half of who she is?

Whaaaaaaaaat. It's quite clear to all that her mother is black and her father is white. She knows this. We all know this.

If I'd described her as a dark skinned white woman I don't think that description would have been allowed.

If I'd described her as a dark skinned white woman I don't think that description would have been allowed.

That's the point.

Fwiw I think we agree generally.

@SpindleWhorl

Didn't William supposedly have words with Harry when he started dating Meghan in a serious way, about what he was getting in to, to be careful, slow down, back up, etc? I imagine it could have been part of that conversation, when Harry said his intentions were serious.

Supposedly they had a falling out, iirc.

I also think it is likely from this conversation. Possibly to do with taking it slowly and asking if Meghan was prepared and could handle and backlash from the press and perhaps anything coming from the public too. This would explain why PW said something after the interview when everyone else remained tight lipped.

If I am correct, I think it was a perfectly reasonable conversation considering that the press did use racist undertones. A white politician was murdered for having remainer views a few years ago. Stating there is a potential danger to a person of colour marrying a prominent member of the RF is not racist. It’s pragmatic and attempting to protect that person.

It's "better" to be a light skinned black woman than a dark-skinned white woman. One is seen as "lesser" than the other. That's why it's upheld - who doesn't want to be in the better/ more advantaged category, eh?

@TheOneDropRuleIsRacist

I don't care what people of different ethnic origins call themselves. There's no anti- anything to fight in that regard. I care about anti-blackness and the replacement of Black people when there's space for all of us to be present, still be who we are and have our voices heard. You can call yourself what you want as long as you know what you're upholding. You can't choose to uphold a structure on one side because it benefits you somehow while trying to tear it down on the other side.

I've supplied a link that Meghan calls herself biracial or mixed race so that's all I have to say on that.

You must appreciate that not everyone agrees with your philosophy on this. Personally your reasoning is not too dissimilar from that guy in Germany. This idea that black people are being replaced by mixed race people who are called black or who identify as black is ludicrous and dangerous thinking in my book.

There are all shades of black and black background. Take the Caribbean for instance, would you not call the majority of the people there black? Yet many, many, many can look to their grandparents or great grandparents and find a white person standing before them, sometimes on both sides. Are they not black enough for you?

Is it by the colour of their skin that you judge? Even on that basis you’d have a problem.

Stop dictating to other black peoples what it means to be black or to be called black. Telling them they don’t belong is a really dangerous mindset.

What black people do you fear are being replaced? What does a “true” black person look like in your view?

[quote TheOneDropRuleIsRacist]@why2why I've given you a link showing how she identifies.[/quote]
That's a very interesting read. Thank you.

Is it by the colour of their skin that you judge? Even on that basis you’d have a problem. Colour of skin means nothing. A black woman and a monoracial black man will make a black child. A black person and a person of another race will make a mixed race/biracial child. Genetics. That's what I'm going with. A mixed race person can be any colour and a black person can be any colour. Doesnt change what they are.

You must appreciate that not everyone agrees with your philosophy on this of course, haven't said everyone does or else I wouldn't be posting if everyone did.

This idea that black people are being replaced by mixed race people who are called black or who identify as black is ludicrous and dangerous thinking in my book. By replaced, I don't mean people in life. I mean representation-wise in the media. If you can't see it, you've either chosen not to or you have mixed-race privilege which allows you not to see it. I'm not sure you've read the links I gave.

Fwiw, part of my own family is mixed race. My husband is biracial and I have a lot of mixed race family members from my husband's side. My husband opened my eyes further to this even though I always thought of this. He's has these sort of discussion in the media.

Are they not black enough for you? There's no such thing as black enough or white enough. If you're black, you're black. If you're white, you're white. If you're mixed, you're mixed. Theres no "enough" because there's no one way of being any if them behaviour wise/skin colour wise.

If you don't see it, you don't want to see it because it somehow benefits you. It's time we all came out and told the truth about our different privileges.

You haven’t explained what defines a true black person. How would you describe people from the Caribbean, for example whose grandparents or great grandparents were white?

An excerpt from on either the links:

In 2018, Zendaya, a biracial model and actress said, “I am Hollywood’s, I guess you could say, acceptable version of a Black girl and that has to change.” Understanding that Hollywood would cast her over a darker-skinned Black person, Zendaya said that she only takes roles for white or biracial characters, leaving room for Black people to play Black characters.

While Zendaya understands she’s preferred because of her proximity to whiteness, other people within the Black community won’t acknowledge this preference.

This conversation is ongoing whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. We are all humans fighting a battle but when you choose to ignore those screaming from under, you must be benefiting somehow.

Already told you: mixed.

You seem to have ignored the links and what Meghan calls herself though but that's okay. I don't expect this to not be without pushback and denial.

@SamiReed1

It really irritates me when people so ignorantly say it 'was just curiosity about skin colour', 'it wasn't racist'. Do any of you not realise that a person of colour KNOWS DARN WELL when it is a racist remark, or something innocuous? Seriously? Do you honestly think we don't know the difference? When a person of colour tells you someone made a racist comment.....BELIEVE THEM! Don't attempt to invalidate our experiences.

But the remark wasn't made to M. She only heard it second hand, and probably not verbatim.