The "Royal Racist"

[GrimDamnFanjo]

The discussion is still rumbling on...
Over on the Daily Mail site there's yet another article about whether H&M will name names.
This I found was interestingly written as it only seems to mention one other family member...

@Pixxie7

I don’t think it’s fair to continue to refer to PH past indiscretions, we all did things we did when we were younger that we now regret. He has matured since then and hopefully learnt from his mistakes.

So why can’t whoever made the racist comment in the first place be excused because they would have been younger when they said it and will have matured since and also hopefully learnt?

Sorry no - would I have dated someone with his history of racist comments? Absolutely not.
You don’t learn ‘how not to think like a racist’ - you might learn how to hide it better. He is unpleasant.

@StartupRepair

Two thoughts. 1. No-one was sending Meghan off to open sewerage plants. She was given lovely hand picked charities around the performing arts and animals to align with her interests.

1. Harry was apparently offended by William telling him not to rush. But William was clearly in the right here. They were in such a rush that Harry never met Meghan's dad and noone seems to have explained to Meghan how the family worked or the expectations of service. Another year together and they might have decided on a small wedding and a more private life.

At first glance, I thought yes, you’re on to something with the small wedding. Idk if Harry had the foresight to have a small wedding. Too much sibling rivalry. You would hope this could have happened. But Meghan seems to always ha e had her sights on the being A list. She wouldn’t have been able to invite Oprah and the Cluneys and so forth, would she?

You mean you think there is no balance to be made. I think it is absolutely right to strike a good balance between naming the abuse but not shaming the abuser given what I s at stake.

@Why2why

Well seeing as you questioned my logic yesterday being akin to the type used to discredit a rape victim, it would be remiss of me not to say WTAF type of logic is that you have posted. Would you be recommending a rape victim not shame the abuser if there was a lot at stake and instead to find a ‘good balance’?

There is no ‘balance’ good or otherwise where racism (or rape) is concerned.

Half baked (good balance of you prefer) =

a) speculation over the whole family which is just spiteful
b) the context/interpretation/retelling is up for question (especially if he left it for many months, recollection may vary!)
c) did it actually even take place at all

@Pixxie7

I don’t think it’s fair to continue to refer to PH past indiscretions, we all did things we did when we were younger that we now regret. He has matured since then and hopefully learnt from his mistakes.

Why is it only Harry's indiscretions (2005 Nazi uniform, 2009 army colleague comment) that are now allowed to be overlooked. These threads regularly hark back to

Edward 1987 - its a knock out
Sophie - 2001 - false sheikh
Charles - 1992 - tampon conversation which was a secret recording of a private conversation

but posters here continue to insist they are valid point to berate other member of the RF with.

I totally agree, the same should be apply to them, however this is about Harry.

@Pixxie7

I totally agree, the same should be apply to them, however this is about Harry.

But the thread is about the royal racist, so not about Harry at all.

In fairness it is about Harry in so much as he judges others in a way he expects not to be judged and with uncertain rules.

@Roussette

What difference does it make that their birthdays are on the same day? Was Obama’s party even on the exact day and did Meghan have a big party that clashed?

Because he had a party that day on his birthday and it was her 40th and she probably had something on?
No idea what your point is

Thought I made my point quite clear. I don’t know what the point is of suggesting that the reason they weren’t invited to Obama’s party was that her birthday was on the same day as his. His party was a few days after his actual birthday as far as I can tell anyway.

I think the thread being about the 'racist' is always going to include Harry.

However, history of the other members has already been brought into it and its been made clear that some posters will bring whatever they want into it. Wether it's relevant or not.

I don't know where I stand on 'maybe Harry has changed'. I do think people can do things they really shouldn't do, because they don't think it out. The learn from it.

But, imo, more often than not they don't. It is just a case of them learning what they can and can't get away with in public. But it would be nice to know people who have done/said really questionable things are capable of complete change.

And as pp said, maybe the the person who showed this concern has also grown and learned.

I haven't been on a H&M thread before. Is there a reason that no one ever speculates that its actually Kate that showed this concern?

@TheOneDropRuleIsRacist

Being proud of your black heritage (as she should) and being a woman of colour because she has a Black mum still doesn't make her just "Black". Identifying with your Black side more still doesn't make a mixed race person just "Black". You can be a mixed race person who identifies more with your Black side; a mixed race person who is proud of your Black heritage, etc. Seeing the world from the eyes of racists and upholding that structure doesn't help to tear down racism.

Sorry what’s your point?

@Hekatestorch
I think it could have been Kate if she were present at any time during the conversation or conversations, where William discussed taking things slower. In this scenario, I would think the would question raised would be as to whether Harry and Meghan were prepared for press backlash. The likelihood that it was one of them is high and more likely William from what we’ve been drip fed about their conversation. This is possibly why the others were tight lipped and why William felt the need to say something being upset the discussion had taken on a sinister meaning, even more so if he were protecting Kate.

@Hekatestorch. It could have been Kate. Of course it could. Because it could have been anyone. Tha reason I think she is usual not singled out is that she is of “non royal” background and so assumes to be a bit more sensitive in these areas. But as I and other posters have said, and you have alluded to, this is the whole problem with this accusation. By not saying who it was it means everyone is in the frame. HaM were quick to deny after the interview that it was the Queen or PP, but that was only after it was clear how ill PP was and of course they want to stay in the Queen’s good books, or so it would seem. So it could even ne one of those two 🤷‍♀️ That is why the refusal to name the person seem to to be a cynical ploy to keep the story out there.

@Mummyoflittledragon and @smilesy thank you.

I agree, it does feel like a cynical ploy.

I just see so many names flying around. But never Kates, (in the media or MN or other social media) I thought maybe I had missed seeing them clarify that it wasn't her or something.

Interestng and slightly bizarre angle has been given on this via an article in the DM (I know!). Anyway, Jeremy Clarkson of all people has stated "If my sources are correct, Harry will never disclose who the person who supposedly made the comment about Archie's skin colour was because the person wasn't a member of the royal family."

So firstly I'm surprised that Jeremy Clarkson has such sources but I suppose it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Secondly, now I think about it when H&M made the allegation neither of them explicitly said it was a royal family member, at least I think they didn't? Of course later when Harry made it clear it wasn't the HMQ or PP (probably because he belatedly realised how his allegation sounded and he knew PP has a well established reputation for saying things like that). So we all asumed another royal family member.

Could be something or more likely just more nonsense. If Clarkson was right though, it would make H&M's allegation even worse as in that case they're letting it hang out there damaging the RF.

William and Harry always teased each other about their hair
Ginger / Bald
They were quite merciless and totally unguarded
It could even have been a comment from William
Eg
I bet you are praying your baby doesn’t inherit ur hair

This is then turned into speculation on colour of the babies hair and that’s when it starts to tip into something else via Chinese whispers

Surely if someone said something overtly racist they should say who said it and what was said.
It is the fact that they haven’t that is making people doubt they are telling the truth
They only like the Queen ( because everyone else does and they can’t besmirch a respected 95 yr old ) so what do they care about the fall out for anyone else ?

The fact they did any interview at all when the Queen’s husband had been admitted says it all to me
Beyond contempt I’m afraid

@Rainbunny, how very interesting. Can anyone remember their exact words or access the transcript?

Maybe we've all been taken for mugs with the way they worded it, and it was a courtier / private secretary / 'man in grey suit' who said it all along.

As for who Jeremy Clarkson's source would be ... no idea.

@Lockupyourbiscuits

The fact they did any interview at all when the Queen’s husband had been admitted says it all to me Beyond contempt I’m afraid

@Lockupyourbiscuits Most of the interview was done before he was admitted.

Regardless, would any timing ever be right? If they waited til after his death it would have been bad (and spare me the 'Queen's husband', she was back on duty in 2 weeks, she certainly didn't waste much time getting back to work did she!). If they waited a year after, it would have been bad. If they waited any longer, it would have been 'oh the poor 97 year old Queen'. If they waited til after the Queen died, it would have been they are 'disgracing her memory'. It also would have been 'they are stealing the new King Charles' thunder and attempting to destabilise the King'.

NO time would ever have been right. It rarely ever is, in these circumstances. Sometimes you just have to go ahead and do what you need to do.

Hands up who would do that to their Grandma who they had deepest love and respect for 👍

I’m pretty sure most of us have had family fall outs and wouldn’t say anything in private if it meant deeply wounding someone they cared for

If we want to tackle racism, we have to be clear about any accusations and be prepared to say X say Y.

I believe M&H's vague statements were intended to be divisive and garner sympathy, without there being any tangible substance that they could be called out on.

They have had countless opportunities to set the record straight but have failed to do so.

Maybe we've all been taken for mugs with the way they worded it, and it was a courtier / private secretary / 'man in grey suit' who said it all along

See, my first thought was that who ever had said it (given it was early in the relationship) was that it was a courtier or advisor (not sure what the right term is) had, had this converstation with them.

And the concern wasn't 'what are we going to do if there's a dark skinned baby in the family' type comment. But more 'the press/social media etc can be brutal. We can do what we can but we can't stop people posting on twitter. You are aware this could become and issue and you and meghan need to be be prepared'

As soon as he decided it was serious there wi have been so many conversations and advisors speaking to him. Like there would be if any got married.

But then, I did assume it was a member of the RF but I actually have no clue if it was a member of his family. Though, you would have thought he would have clarified that when they clarified it wasn't the Queen or PP.

I am not taking Jeremy Clarksons word for it and not sure I believe him or his 'source'. But he could be right, in that they never, actually, said it was a relation.

@Lockupyourbiscuits

Hands up who would do that to their Grandma who they had deepest love and respect for 👍

Oh the old victim-blaming routine. So they had to suffer in silence so as 'not to upset grandma'. Fuck that for a game of soldiers! Grandma didn't seem to concerned about the abuse Meghan was getting. Grandmas can be selfish and uncaring too. Being a grandma doesn't excuse grandma's bad behaviour @Lockupyourbiscuits

@Lockupyourbiscuits

I’m pretty sure most of us have had family fall outs and wouldn’t say anything in private if it meant deeply wounding someone they cared for

Yes, again with the old victim-blaming routine. They clearly TRIED discussing it in private. Because the stories about them were public, they had little choice but to go public. Maybe the 'sweet old grandma' should have thought about how her selfish inaction was 'deeply wounding' a grandson she supposedly cared for. No. Harry owed her NOTHING.