Harry to sue BBC

[Viviennemary]

I just read Harry is going to sue the BBC for announcing the Queen wasn't consulted over the name Lilibet. They said she was told of their plans . Maybe told isnt quite the same as consulted. When is this all going to end. Seems to be getting worse instead of improving.

If he did ask to use Lilibet, why have the Palace spokespeople come out to say he didn't? Given that the Queen wants to hold out an olive branch?

My guess is that the conversation he had- which was supposedly even before MM was pregnant, was along the lines of 'If I have a daughter I might name her after you/ give her your name.'

Maybe they plan on calling her Lil'Diana a la Lil'Kim 🤔

If Harry were a MNetter’s brother and he and sil had had a massive row with the family and then gone on to name their dd after the rich and famous granny….. a million votes for his being unreasonable.

If rf so awful and Doria so great, why no name in her or Doria’s mum’s honour? (M claimed to be fond of her gm.)

I certainly wouldn’t name any dcs after dh’s family…….. unless perhaps it would be advantageous to do so….

Oh fgs, it’s semantics. Harry said they had spoken to the Queen about using the name and she had been supportive. The palace release a statement saying that ‘they had NOT asked permission’.

They didn’t say they did ask permission (after all, Mumsnet favourite argument, no one owns a name), they merely said she was supportive. Maybe they said ‘Granny, we’re calling her Lilibet’ and Queenie said ‘That’s nice dear’. So it might be true to say they didn’t ask ‘permission’ and it’s also true to say ‘the Queen is supportive’.

What is clear is that someone, or multiple someones, have it in for Harry and Meghan, and I have no problem with imagining that someone/s are not members of the family but rather the faceless courtiers and secretaries who, quite possibly think they are far more important to the institution than certainly Meghan, and probably even Harry - particularly if they have been in the employ of the Monarchy for many years. I don’t think the Queen or any other member of the family have ultimate control over their own lives and are caught in the crossfire of individuals happy to brief against anyone they feel doesn’t fit. If (when) the Monarchy falls, it won’t be down to any particular member of the family and their actions/inactions, it’ll be due to the scheming behind the scenes.

Interesting that Wills and Kate had to rub salt in the wound by using Lili in their tweet. Really uncalled for and very nasty move on their part. Pathetic.

@DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat Ah but if you are going down the semantics' route, it's not about 'a name' - it's about which name. The Queen has several names. Any could be abbreviated- ie Lizzie, Lizzy, Betty, Liz, etc. What we don't know is if he specifically asked about Lilibet.

@GorgeousNightingale

Interesting that Wills and Kate had to rub salt in the wound by using Lili in their tweet. Really uncalled for and very nasty move on their part. Pathetic.

Don't get your point here. I though MM had said the child would be called Lili (short for Lilibet). That's what was reported in the broadsheets.

@bluebell34567

the RF will say recollections may vary.

Code for they're telling a pack of lies, again.

@GorgeousNightingale

Interesting that Wills and Kate had to rub salt in the wound by using Lili in their tweet. Really uncalled for and very nasty move on their part. Pathetic.

Don't understand this at all - Harry and Meghan literally said the baby would be called Lili

Surely in order to win this case they would need the queen to confirm this for them? I doubt she'd get involved in this.

I don't know why they can't just leave stuff, if they stopped constantly rowing with everyone the articles would gradually peter out eventually. They need to stop engaging.

@GorgeousNightingale

Interesting that Wills and Kate had to rub salt in the wound by using Lili in their tweet. Really uncalled for and very nasty move on their part. Pathetic.

Good for them, slap down the ghastly pair. It's a child they'll rarely see unless the money's good.

I think he misses his dad and gran and especially William and Kate who he always seemed so happy with. He's got two much longed for children that he can't share with them.

All his own doing eh?

Happy people don’t create a maelstrom of whirling unhappiness and distrust wherever they go.

They will poison themselves and their family with continued whining, bitching and threats of litigation.

They have happiness within their grasp. If they concentrated on grabbing happiness instead of stirring the pot, life would be better.

They know fine well what they are doing. No publicity is bad publicity.

She might be fine being rid of some family. He appears to be struggling.

@lollipoprainbow

Don't blame him I hope they sue the arse of the daily mail too for their vile articles !!

Absolutely agree, The Daily Mail is a paper full of transphobia and racism. Full of dog whistles. I hate it.

GorgeousNightingale
Interesting that Wills and Kate had to rub salt in the wound by using Lili in their tweet. Really uncalled for and very nasty move on their part.Pathetic.

I’m with museumum on this.

H&M said she would be called Lili. Wtf else were they going to call her?

Give ower.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Queen didn't quite know how to react, if she was asked/told. A childhood nickname is such a personal, intimate thing. Unlike a full name, which is very public and formal, it's private and personal. The Queen is someone who has lived her life, since childhood, in the glare of public scrutiny - the most famous woman in the world - and it seems to me that what H&M have done is taken away one of the fragments of her private life and changed its meaning and associations forever.

The BBC has poked a hornet's nest with this one.

That Lilibet is the Queen's personal, intimate nickame is a nationallly held association. But people were fine with it being used within her extended family on the basis that the Queen is fine with it. But that's been called into question now, in a way that can't easily be overlooked, because it is the national tax-payer funded broadcast company (with global wild service reach) who is saying that might not really be the case.

People are protective of the Queen at the moment, and if her feelings have been hurt (and remember we do not know if that is the case) then there could be quite a backlash from the sorts of royalists who lined the streets in their thousands to wish H&M well. Not in a nasty sort of way, like the bottom feeders of the Internet, but in that intangible way that just erases them. Tabloid coverage will follow that - and they will get their wish of being ignored, or coverage (even from the likes of the Express) will be sad/negative.

I don't see a 'win' for them - would have been better to have let this one become tomorrow's chip paper (in this specific case, other issues have different merits)

From the BBC

But a Sussexes' spokesperson insisted they would not have used the name had the Queen not been supportive.

They said the monarch was the first family member the duke had called.

The spokesperson said: "The duke spoke with his family in advance of the announcement - in fact his grandmother was the first family member he called.

"During that conversation, he shared their hope of naming their daughter Lilibet in her honour. Had she not been supportive, they would not have used the name."
**
Is the Sussexes' 'source' Omid Scobie?

I wonder if the Queen’s lunch invitation will be rescinded now?

I wish they’d just pipe down and get on with their new lives.

The Queen is someone who has lived her life, since childhood, in the glare of public scrutiny - the most famous woman in the world - and it seems to me that what H&M have done is taken away one of the fragments of her private life and changed its meaning and associations forever.

Indeed. Well said.

Even with HMQ, it's not about seeking permission - no one owns the name - but they should have sought her clear and specific blessing to use what in the case of this family is a highly personal private nickname as their baby's actual registered name, particularly in the sensitive context of a very public family rift.

I suspect a woolly chat was had that H&M can claim constituted a yes from the Queen, but in which it was not made clear that they were going to register the baby as Lilibet, as opposed to Elizabeth, Lili or any other form of the name.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Queen didn't quite know how to react, if she was asked/told

If the report is true that they Zoom called her on the day the baby was born, and if that's when it was mentioned, then I can certainly see that she didn't have much notice of any of it and so was probably caught off guard. And in those circumstances it's being presented as a fait accompli, so objecting will get you nowhere.

None of this is certain, of course. But it's what the BBC story seems to imply.

@GorgeousNightingale

Interesting that Wills and Kate had to rub salt in the wound by using Lili in their tweet. Really uncalled for and very nasty move on their part. Pathetic.

Archwell website: "On June 4, we were blessed with the arrival of our daughter, Lili"

We're the people who used Lili in that statement being nasty and pathetic?

Or is it more likely that everyone I'd using the day to day name?

Is it nasty and pathetic to call call the Duke of Sussex Harry, which is his day to day name , rather than Henry (his official name)?

@JinglingHellsBells

If he did ask to use Lilibet, why have the Palace spokespeople come out to say he didn't? Given that the Queen wants to hold out an olive branch?

My guess is that the conversation he had- which was supposedly even before MM was pregnant, was along the lines of 'If I have a daughter I might name her after you/ give her your name.'

Yes that could work. There must be some explanation along those lines.

Much though some MNers want to believe otherwise, the BBC doesn’t invent hard news sources, and senior palace courtiers don’t turn rogue and start inventing things.

@greenpots

“ They announced a baby and name, and end of. The witch hunt about the name is truly sickening!”

They really didn’t though. They had the baby, on the same day registered her name as a domain with GoDaddy (before the birth was announced, so it couldn’t have been an opportunistic cybersquatter), made sure that the press were informed that Meghan’s due date was Thursday 10 June, coincidentally the Duke of Edinburghs 100th birthday, and which had never been mentioned before, which put them straight into the news cycles, then announced the birth and the (strikingly unsubtle) name that had already occurred. Then they released some puff PR pieces about how the name also reflected Doria (whose nickname for Meghan was Flower, and a Lily is a flower so Lili is a clear nod to Doria, apparently…) and then announced to People that the Queen had been informed of their choice of name and approved it. And that they and the Queen had zoomed to introduce the baby, and it was all just delightful. The announcement of the baby’s name was clearly one piece of the jigsaw that was their marketing strategy around the birth of their daughter.

At some stage presumably the Royal family/Queen decided that enough was enough, and that they weren’t okay with being used to prop up this lovely PR fantasy. So they lifted the veil and informed the Press that actually, that is not how this happened. Meghan and Harry have quite clearly been relying on that fact that they will not get a direct engagement from any of the Royals on “their truth” for some time now, so it might come as some surprise to them? Or, given they came back straightaway with the response that the BBC report is defamatory, even though it was the middle of the night in LA, maybe they foresaw that this would be seen as unacceptable within the family and were prepared for a pushback?

Sources, since I know people demand them:

people.com/royals/meghan-markle-prince-harry-told-queen-elizabeth-birth-daughter-before-public-announcement/

people.com/royals/how-meghan-markle-daughter-name-lili-is-also-a-nod-to-her-mom-doria-ragland/

www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/domain-name-lilibetdianacom-bought-on-same-day-sussexes-welcome-baby-girl/news-story/25402037bb561e07ac1c083b1015cb69

www.entertainmentdaily.co.uk/royals/meghan-markle-baby-due-date-revealed-and-its-very-poignant/

During that conversation, he shared their hope of naming their daughter Lilibet in her honour. Had she not been supportive, they would not have used the name.

I do wonder if Harry, who is not always the most articulate off the cuff speaker, didn't make the situation 100% clear in this conversation.