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The royal family

I wonder if reconciliation is possible?

874 replies

sunnyblackwidow · 17/04/2021 20:20

With Prince Philip now gone, the queen not as robust as she once was and grieving her loss, Prince Charles looked distraught today, Harry with a new baby on the way, memories of Diana's funeral today....I wonder if now isn't the perfect time for them to just all get together show their love for each other and clear the air (perhaps without Meghan's presence as she seems to inflame things).

I think it'll be telling how long Harry chooses to stay in the UK before he returns to the US (a clear indication of whether he's willing to hang around for a little while to mend fences or rush back home to Meghan and Oprah and Gail) I really wish the best for them all, family is everything but I'm not holding my breath.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/04/2021 13:18

The scrutiny and criticism (of a political campaign) would make anything previous look like child's play, and there would be no recourse then to being a 'private citizen' who can expect to be left alone

I shouldn't really get into this since there's no direct evidence of such an intention, but in principle I agree totally. Politicians are right up there with the media in their ability to dig dirt or just to make something up if there isn't any, and the consequences don't bear thinking about

Changing tack to Edward and Wallis, though, I wouldn't quite have said they "kept their heads down/laid low" - not with the amount of Nazi schmoozing they did at such a time. There are those who believe the government were only too glad to see the back of Edward and even that they engineered his departure because of this, but anyway I thoroughly recommend Deborah Cadbury's well researched Princes in Wartime ... quite a revelation

goldierocks · 27/04/2021 14:30

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor (Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson) actually gave quite a long television interview, which was broadcast on BBC1 on 27th March 1970. I believe it's available on <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dw8u7Ntic5fo&ved=2ahUKEwjhk9bFw57wAhWcaRUIHfPlA7UQwqsBegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1akhUfGRtWyASik5jG-SXt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">YouTube

They expressed their opinions on modern youth, smoking and the role of women in society. Edward also recalls memories of Queen Victoria, Edward VI and his own father (George V), plus prime ministers Stanley Baldwin and Sir Winston Churchill.

Probably the most 'controversial' statements were:
"I wanted to be an up-to-date King. I had political conceptions but I kept them to myself, and that is the tradition of the Royal family......To some extent I did (collide with the establishment), not very violently. Not in a bad way....I'm being conceited but I think it might have helped the establishment too. It might have revived the thinking of the establishment."

Wallis added: "I think he had lots of pep and was very much ahead of his time. I think he wanted to establish things that were a little - not ready for them perhaps."

Prince Philip was the first member of the Royal family to give a television interview (Richard Dimbleby, Panorama, 29th May 1961).

Giapicchi · 01/05/2021 15:17

I think the press has encouraged the idea of competition and feud between the Cambridge’s and Sussexes but I have always thought that in their situation Will would not feel as competitive given that he is higher in the line of secession. He was raised to eventually be king whereas Harry always knew he would be second. Surely this puts William in a power position as compared to his brother. Perhaps Harry resents this, I know he is said to have resented William’s advice about taking it slow with Meghan. I doubt that Will and Kate are trying to compete with Harry and Meghan because they realize they are destined for the throne whereas Harry is the spare. Harry may or may not want to be king himself. I imagine that secretly he would at least like to have the choice, it must be difficult for him knowing Will is ahead of him. And Will must be sensitive to this. I believe the Queen is also sensitive to this dynamic as she experience this with her her own sister, who also struggled in the shadow of the Queen.

ohforarainyday · 01/05/2021 20:24

IMO it's pretty clear William and Kate were incredibly threatened by Harry and Meghan's work ethic and popularity. Harry had his wild child years but he's focused (created Invictus and Sentebale) and has a natural charisma which people connect with, while Meghan is clearly a workaholic and super ambitious. William and Kate are famously totally workshy, and have accomplished almost nothing in a decade of being royal - not a single major initiative or programme on a par with the Princes Trust or the Duke of Edinburgh award. They've had so much bad press over the years for being workshy, and been lucky to avoid scandals over all the incidents of them letting down charities (like the reveal last year that Kate hadn't visited two of her major patronages a single time since becoming patron) and refusing to perform basic royal duties (like the Irish Guards thing).

Incidents like Netflix turning down William when he pitched a documentary series about mental health to them, but giving Harry a £100 million deal, and Harry and Meghan being courted by so many huge international celebs while William is on the record about being rejected by every single celeb he approached for Heads Together, must also sting.

It's the same thing that happened with Charles and Diana. Charles bitterly resented Diana for outshining him with her work ethic and natural charisma. The number one rule in the BRF is that no one outshines the monarch or future monarch. Kate's had to spend 10 years being the beautiful but dull and silent consort to avoid overshadowing him. No way would they tolerate Meghan doing it, and she clearly wasn't willing to dull her shine.

Skiptheheartsandflowers · 01/05/2021 21:42

Meghan is clearly a workaholic and super ambitious

That'll be why the podcast they announced they would do in late 2020 is going great guns, then. Taylor Swift's made two albums in the time it's taken them to record one episode.

MissLathbury · 01/05/2021 21:46

Lol, I’d hate to see what she’d be like if she dulled it then.

Lockupyourbiscuits · 01/05/2021 22:08

It’s not a popularity contest
It’s not primary school

mermaidsariel · 01/05/2021 22:13

@ohforarainyday

IMO it's pretty clear William and Kate were incredibly threatened by Harry and Meghan's work ethic and popularity. Harry had his wild child years but he's focused (created Invictus and Sentebale) and has a natural charisma which people connect with, while Meghan is clearly a workaholic and super ambitious. William and Kate are famously totally workshy, and have accomplished almost nothing in a decade of being royal - not a single major initiative or programme on a par with the Princes Trust or the Duke of Edinburgh award. They've had so much bad press over the years for being workshy, and been lucky to avoid scandals over all the incidents of them letting down charities (like the reveal last year that Kate hadn't visited two of her major patronages a single time since becoming patron) and refusing to perform basic royal duties (like the Irish Guards thing).

Incidents like Netflix turning down William when he pitched a documentary series about mental health to them, but giving Harry a £100 million deal, and Harry and Meghan being courted by so many huge international celebs while William is on the record about being rejected by every single celeb he approached for Heads Together, must also sting.

It's the same thing that happened with Charles and Diana. Charles bitterly resented Diana for outshining him with her work ethic and natural charisma. The number one rule in the BRF is that no one outshines the monarch or future monarch. Kate's had to spend 10 years being the beautiful but dull and silent consort to avoid overshadowing him. No way would they tolerate Meghan doing it, and she clearly wasn't willing to dull her shine.

Hmm... I don’t see Meghan as a workaholic. What’s she worked at in the last three or four years? She’s been on maternity leave or having a ‘rest’ nearly the whole time. What’s she done exactly that makes her a workaholic?
MrsFin · 01/05/2021 22:42

Meghan is clearly a workaholic and super ambitious

Most of their initiatives seem to fizzle out very soon after they are announced.

Ocsetldil · 02/05/2021 00:43

I’m looking forward to Travekyst being back up and running now that we will soon be able to travel again after the vaccine roll out.

Mummy194 · 02/05/2021 07:24

@Skiptheheartsandflowers

Meghan is clearly a workaholic and super ambitious

That'll be why the podcast they announced they would do in late 2020 is going great guns, then. Taylor Swift's made two albums in the time it's taken them to record one episode.

I don't suppose TS was busy having being pregnant twice, having a miscarriage all the while taking care of her toddler in past year.

And while MNers assume that H&M were not busy behind the scenes, aside from what we have seen with the easy zoom calls, the 'glamorous' food and nappies distribution and playing with toddlers, H&M were also busy securing jobs and business deals.

No matter if it's their name on the brand, Netflix and Spotify will want to know that you have sound ideas to present to them. MM is famous for her 'file' as she prepares for events and gets as much background as she can find about an organisation.

I find it hard to believe that PH wants the crown, not when being a spare can give him the best of both worlds. K&M used to be hard clubbers back in the day, now they are more than just adults, they are decidedly dull. They have had to cap their personalities completely. The problem may be that H&M were a little to charismatic for their own good, that the public seems to have forgotten they are supposed to treat him like Edward, and not hold him to the Kings standard and responsibility. And yes, I think the palace had a problem with H&M being too popular, it makes K&W shortcomings to glaring.

milveycrohn · 02/05/2021 07:38

I think the Sussex's forgot that the Monarch in this country has a constitutional role (however, mild). That is why the Queen cannot be political.
The Gov will require the RF to host various State Banquets, for the US president, such as Trump, or Idi Amin, the Romanian President Ceaușescu, etc. It could be Trump one time and Biden the next. It would be very awkward, if they were known to be anti Trump, etc
That said, there have been cases, where various RF members have shown a degree of personal preferences, or let it be known, etc
Personally I think the OW interview a mistake, because families change and progress, as we get older, marry, have children, etc. The interview has been said, and will always be there.
We do not know who said what about Archie's skin colour, or even if it was said at all. All we know is Harry SAID that a member of the RF had said something. They tried to link this to Archie security and being a Prince.
Much of what Meghan said has been shown to be false, so I am not sure whether we should believe anything she said as true, just 'her truth'.

mermaidsariel · 02/05/2021 08:53

Hard to understand how Harry ‘forgot’. He’s the Queens grandson. If he doesn’t understand her constitutional role, it’s a very poor show. M seems to be completely ignorant.

Lockupyourbiscuits · 02/05/2021 09:23

The interview was very damaging to the Monarchy and by extension the British Brand in America.
It’s puzzling why Harry particularly would want that.
Unless his personality hampers his ability to see consequences

Mummy194 · 02/05/2021 09:47

I think the Sussex's forgot that the Monarch in this country has a constitutional role (however, mild). That is why the Queen cannot be political.

Nowadays, it's hard not to get involved. I assume that is why W is involved with the football racism campaign?

Comeinoutoftherain · 02/05/2021 10:10

I don't doubt for a minute that the Palace/Royal Family as an institution had some concern about the rising popularity of the Sussexes in the beginning.

That may or may not have been actually felt by W&K, who are actually in line to the throne - they didn't seem to mind having H by their side all the time before he got married, and seemed to be happy to share the limelight.

So I can fully understand that Palace PR might have wanted to curtail some of the Sussexes work in order to allow for the hierarchy to shine through - there was some mention of wanting to delay some press releases etc as W&K or C&C had something to announce and they took precedence.

I imagine that was very frustrating - particularly for M - who hasn't lived as part of the Monarchy for 30+ years. Although I would guess that it was a shock for H, who had been in with W&K for so long that it probably suddenly felt like a back seat.

Unfortunately M (and maybe H, but he didn't display these tendencies prior to marriage) wants the ability to speak out and anything and everything she deems important. She was given a platform but it wasn't a wide reaching as she wanted (talking about being silenced).

The failing to turn up for the dinner with Trump made it entirely clear that she wasn't cut out for a life as a member of the Monarchy.

Yes yes I KNOW she was "on maternity leave" - but she attended other engagements around the same time, so it was obviously a choice not to attend the function with Trump.

It was a very big deal for the Royal Family and for the UK and is the entire purpose of them being the Monarchy, to play the soft diplomacy card. If it had been Obama or Biden she would have walked over hot coals to get there.

M isn't a good fit for the Royal Family as an institution. This is not a criticism, I would hate to be a part of it. That is the problem when you combine work and family.

H is free to marry anyone he wants, but in terms of marrying into the Royal Family AND then proceeding to become a working member, even the engagement interview doesn't sit quite right.

I'm not surprised there was a suggestion that M did not become a working member of the royal family. (And even less surprised in the OW interview that it was put across a bit more forcefully than was originally reported).

H doesn't want to be king, he's made that clear even prior to meeting M. However, he's not really interested in making his own way in the world, as very few people earn enough to maintain the lifestyle he gets in the royal family.

Look at Beatrice and Eugenie. They are not working royals, they have their own careers (which do not provide the lifestyle of a working royal by a long shot).

They live at Kensington Palace. So they live in a house/apartment which they couldn't afford on their own, which is protected by 24/7 security (even if it's not their own personal security) and they are funded in part by the Queen from the Duchy of Lancaster (whether via Andrew or directly).

M was miserable as a working royal - that's obvious even before you listen to the OW interview I don't blame her for that. She was also clearly homesick (again not unusual).

The problem is that by moving back to America, they caused massive issues with regards to lifestyle and security (which I don't think they thought through).

They had options open to them. M could have quit as a working royal and gone off to do whatever she wanted, H could have stayed. This would mean that H would have 24/7 security as long as they lived in the UK/a commonwealth country. Archie would have been covered by that security. Canada were happy to pay for their security whilst they were working royals. They could have lived permanently in Canada with Harry representing the Commonwealth and had security/lifestyle.

They could both have quit, and stayed in the UK. Living at Frogmore House or any of the UK royal residences would have given them security most of the time, because the royal residences are protected in their own right, even if no one is there (which is how Beatrice and Eugenie are mostly protected). They would also be covered at Frogmore by the Queen's security as they are on the Windsor Estate, and at Kensington Palace by W&K security by proximity alone.

M wanted to go home permanently. There in lies the problem. As working or non working royals in the USA the situation for security is problematic. The USA probably won't pay for it, even if H was a working royal. They have no affiliation to the Queen and Commonwealth.

They could have spent 50% of the year in the UK and 50% in the USA, and would probably have had security paid if H was working - but that doesn't work for school when Archie turns 4.

Half in and half out was never a viable option and H knew it wasn't. He's seen Edwards mess, and Sophie's. That's why they put the statement out prior to approval from the Queen, to try to force her hand. They forced it the wrong way.

It's difficult for a lot of couples from very different countries to work out a middle ground. M was only happy in the USA, I suspect H is going to find it very hard to live in California permanently. She gave up her entire life, and now he's done the same. It's not an easy position to be in.

I don't think they were really together long enough to properly thrash it out and understand what they were getting into. H has already had two long term girlfriends decide that the media interest wasn't for them.

He probably wanted her to marry him ASAP because he was in love, and he didn't want to lose her. He probably hoped that these things would work themselves out. They don't just work themselves out, they take work and a lot of compromise.

The problem comes when the compromise has to be done by someone outside of the marriage. They wanted the Queen to compromise, the British Public to compromise.

Maintaining that level of lifestyle is very very difficult. I don't even want to think about how much they spend on security, never mind the staff and the house and the rest of the lifestyle. His trust fund won't last long, and the 100 million reported from Netflix includes production costs (I think) so won't actually go that far to support their own lifestyle.

They are probably going to be rather busy with Netflix, Spotify, and Harry's two other jobs (I've forgotten what they are) so they will struggle to make money elsewhere. M is pregnant with a toddler, and about to go on maternity leave. Where are they making the additional millions they need to keep the lifestyle?

H could probably have come back as a working royal before the OW interview. M could have stayed in California with the kids, and H could travel as needed.

In 2019 Prince William carried out 220 engagements over 74 days. Surely H could manage that. He could fly back to the UK for a week, carry out 7 days of engagements (about 21 engagements) and fly back to the USA.

He could do more regular visits to Canada and the Caribbean, leaving him even closer to home. As a working royal, he would get security wherever he is in the world (as much as that presents logistical challenges). Plus all the perks of being royal.

I think the OW interview was a way of H&M venting their frustration about a situation which was bigger than they were , and one they couldn't work to their advantage - but unfortunately it came across as a personal attack (because it was) and likely ended any opportunity for H to come back as a working royal.

This leaves them in a compromised position, if more and much more lucrative deals aren't found.

It must be hard for H to defend The Crown, which showed his mother in a fairly awful light, because he's contracted to Netflix. The Crown in the latest season has really gone for the royal family, but Diana wasn't exactly made to look good.

Reconciliation might be possible over time, but that depends whether both H&M are prepared to compromise (as well as the royal family).

M has shown no interest in building bridges with her father (I'm not saying she should, just that she hasn't) and absolutely torched the royal family at a time when they knew Philip was dying. She doesn't seem eager to fix things, and so I think that will make it very difficult for H to mend things - especially if telephone discussions get leaked to Gayle King and Omid Scobie.

MrsFin · 02/05/2021 10:26

That'll be why the podcast they announced they would do in late 2020 is going great guns, then. Taylor Swift's made two albums in the time it's taken them to record one episode.

I don't suppose TS was busy having being pregnant twice, having a miscarriage all the while taking care of her toddler in past year.
^
Oh come on! I had two babies 20 months apart, with a miscarriage in between them.
I took 4 months mat leave with the first, worked through the mc with only a few days off when the bleeding was at its worst, and went back when DC2 was 4 months.
I had to, we needed the money.
I'm sure MM could have managed to record a podcast or two during her pregnancy.^

Mummy194 · 02/05/2021 10:34

@MrsFin

Good for you. But I don't think you can know how other people's miscarriage was like or their pregnancy for that matter and try to dictate how much workload they must have.

Bellevu · 02/05/2021 10:35

I'm always fascinated by the difference between how bme people saw the interview and the majority of mumsnet.

My work and friend WhatsApp exploded and everyone's response was a lack of surprise.

Deny, reinterpret all you like, but the black and brown people in your life or who you encounter overwhelmingly have a different perspective.

The denials and suggestions she overreacted only reinforced personal experiences of sly digs, insults, different standards to our white peers.

Instead of trying to tear Meghan down (which really only gives credibility to her statements of the black British experience), ask why so many minority groups believed her and were sharing their own stories and examples.

She just took it wrong, needed a thicker skin etc isn't an acceptable response. The press, Piers Morgan etc kept telling her to leave 🙄 if she couldn't take it. The anger that she said OK and left shows the similarities of being with a dangerously abusive partner who thinks that because the alternative is unknown you're forced to accept growing levels of humiliation and degradation. I know bme people who gave notice at work after the interview. They were reminded that they could walk away from racism and bullying.

Mummy194 · 02/05/2021 10:44

Sorry @Comeinoutoftherain, that is a long post, and sometimes confusing. But I will go through a few points.

I am sure it was a nice excuse for MM not to see Trump, but she was at breastfeeding stage then, we have no idea if she was up to sitting for a long dinner at this point. The other engagement she was on was the balcony which was for a few minutes and plenty of time to nip off to Archie if needed. So I see no point in bringing this up as a sign on not being right for the role.

You do have a lot of contradictions regarding staying in the UK and half in and out. If MM was to carry on working, how was that being planned exactly? That MM would be in US filming, while H was off doing his duties - which were mostly not US related, but rather UK and CW. Her contacts are in the US/CA film industry, not the UK. She would then get pregnant and she and A would have no security because they are in the US not working for the crown. But they are the main reason for the threats. Never mind the strain of a long distance relationship. If she found jobs here, a lot of resentment about her 'using RF connections'. I don't know what the palace was playing at here.

It's been touted a lot about an expensive lifestyle on here, but MM expensive clothes were specifically for RF engagements. Infact fashion blogs put a low price on her informal style. I think the deals that they have and may have, will be more than enough tbh.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/05/2021 11:01

MM ... gets as much background as she can find about an organisation

Considering the number of things she's said she "didn't know", it's a shame she didn't do a little more research into the RF

The failing to turn up for the dinner with Trump made it entirely clear that she wasn't cut out for a life as a member of the Monarchy

And yet Charles did the very same over the Chinese state dinner - worse, he insulted them by reportedly calling the leadership "appalling old waxworks"

Does that mean he's not cut out for a life as a member of the monarchy too?

Mummy194 · 02/05/2021 11:14

Considering the number of things she's said she "didn't know", it's a shame she didn't do a little more research into the RF

I would say there is a big difference between getting information that is freely available everywhere, than the internal workings of an organisation.

Even with her files, I don't suppose she knows the intimate details of the organisation.

lollipoprainbow · 02/05/2021 11:16

@Mummy194 agree, there's a difference between knowing lots about the royal family to actually being part of it.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/05/2021 11:26

I would say there is a big difference between getting information that is freely available everywhere, than the internal workings of an organisation
Even with her files, I don't suppose she knows the intimate details of the organisation

I agree completely; however I'm not thinking of things that folk can't possibly know until they're "in it", but of freely available details

After all if we can find them I'm pretty sure MM could have done too, and for me at least the claim that "I never looked up my husband online" is pretty ridiculous coming from someone who's said to do her research ... once again an example of it being impossible to have it both ways

MrsFin · 02/05/2021 11:37

[quote Mummy194]@MrsFin

Good for you. But I don't think you can know how other people's miscarriage was like or their pregnancy for that matter and try to dictate how much workload they must have.[/quote]
Well I admit that's true, all mcs are different, as is everyone's reaction to having an mc. However, women do it every day (go back to work) - because they have no choice.

Miscarriage is a horrible thing. I've experienced it myself, as have millions of other women. But we're not talking hard graft. We were talking about making a podcast.

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