Harry & Meghan what they’ll do next - Thread 2

[DandyAF]

Carrying on the conversation as the last thread finished mid-discussion.

Actually I probably wouldnt call them anything apart from "Jane and Jim who live down the road in the house with the blue door".

Please don’t compare a mixed-heritage woman to a loaf of bread, Pelican. It’s deeply crass.

Well, personally I understand the point Yolo was trying to make. Maybe it was a rushed one, but she is no racist as far as I am concerned. I also don't think it was a racist post. It was generalising at best, that's all.

I think, because of the coverage they chose to show us.

But genuine thanks for the insight into SA obviously, there are many professional women!

I have absolutely no desire to offend anyone or appear racist in any way, as I am not.

MM does much more harm than good (IMHO) That's the issue. We have to defend our country too.

I really don’t understand why M is called black. She’s equally black and white.

In the US and other white dominated societies, a bi-racial person is never equally black and white. They seldom experience the level of privilege that white people have, but they nearly always experience racism against black people.

Excellent post @Tsukukuviri.

I thought we were overdue some accusations of racism/hate/ignorance/bitchiness.

Please don’t compare a mixed-heritage woman to a loaf of bread, Pelican. It’s deeply crass

It would be, if Pelican was actually doing so. She obviously wasn't comparing a mixed-race person to a loaf of bread, and surely nobody with any sense would think that she was.

I knew this thread would be stopped.

MM came from a privileged background I thought?

More privileged than mine anyway.

I thought we were overdue some accusations of racism/hate/ignorance/bitchiness

We were indeed, Froq.

sparkling
Actually I’m comparing a white woman to a loaf of bread too. That’s the whole point.
To me it’s far more racist to suggest a woman with any black heritage in whatever percentage is black. That smacks of the ‘touch of the tarbrush’. We are all mixtures of all sorts of heritage. A woman with a black grandparent is not black. She’s of mixed ethnicity.

No one compared anyone to a loaf of bloody bread!

Agree Froq*

@SenecaFallsRedux excellent point. All the racism, none of the privilege. That stands in the UK too tbf.

I didn't see yolo's post before it was zapped but I completely accept her explanation. Intent is everything, and she apologised unreservedly for unintentionally giving offence.

I don't think anyone means to offend here, do they? If we accidentally do, then it should be enough to calmly point this out in the spirit of friendly exchange.

really don’t understand why M is called black. She’s equally black and white.

In the US and other white dominated societies, a bi-racial person is never equally black and white. They seldom experience the level of privilege that white people have, but they nearly always experience racism against black people.
I agree. That’s the sort of thinking that needs to be challenged. I am challenging it.

It's an analogy FFS

Meghan was well received in SA because as a successful and hardworking black woman who came from a humble background and difficult family environment, she is extremely inspiring not only to black women in South Africa, but to the rest of the African continent, the Caribbean and beyond.

I get that Britain’s weird dysfunctional class issues mean that hard work and aspiration are not admired, in fact, ambitious people are routinely mocked for getting above themselves, and you have a tall poppy syndrome where people are not supposed to “rise above their station”. And if this is an offensive stereotype to some, I hope it helps you understand how offensive your stereotypes about others are.

I think you miss the point Tsukukuviris

I am glad if MM is an inspiration to black women in SA - presumably because she is seen there, as you imply in your post, as someone who has risen above her slightly inauspicious beginnings and made something of herself.

However, criticism of MM (and Harry) stemmed initially from their hypocrisy in not practising what they preached, then in happily receiving taxpayer funding whilst refusing to return the courtesy in the normal ways expected of the RF.

This prompted some further scrutiny of both parties and of MMs past. Rather than being a hard working woman and feminist who had achieved a measure of success through her own efforts, this seemed to show, according to many reports, that this was not entirely so. All of this is freely available on the internet and in the press.

She is undoubtedly hard working and driven, but there is no comparison with a woman such as, for example, Michelle Obama who also rose from humble beginnings, through her own work and application, which are certainly admired.

This is not tall poppy syndrome. It is a case of a woman whom many see as masquerading as something she is not. Hence the criticism.

*rumboogie

Very well put.

Rumboogie perfectly expressed.

rumboogie yy re Michelle Obama. She is a woman I truly admire, she bloody worked her arse off, remained gracious ("they go low, we go high"). 'Becoming' is a fascinating read.

Meghan, well she doesn't quite match up.

An analogy is a comparison. I’m really not usually one for quoting dictionary definitions, but...

“a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.”

Using a loaf of bread made from different flours as an analogy for a dual-heritage person is deeply crass.

She thinks she does though!

Racism does not have to be intentional. It’s still racism.

Michelle Obama is a woman without any ego as far as I can see. She is incredibly gracious and inspirational. She does so much out of a genuine desire to make the world a better place, not just for herself, but for everyone. I think she’s amazing.

Whatever Sparkling the post was not meant to compare an individual to a loaf of bread and you know it.

Only crass though when applied to a black woman? So the white half is irrelevant is it?

@Tsukukuviri

Thank you for your posts. It's always good to hear a variety of views/options and perspectives.

As such I'd like to ask some questions in good faith re: this element of your first post on the thread.

*So when she said she was a woman of a colour and a sister, many of us women of colour took her words for what they were, and we took her to our hearts for what she represents. She is a sister. Feel free to read up on what sisterhood means to black women.

Please don’t presume to speak for black women by stating that you think our priorities should be our raped babies.

It is both patronizing and racist to presume you can know what those priorities are.

Has Meghan made mistakes? Of course, many. But given the racist tone of most of the commentary about her, especially here on Mumsnet, we definitely have her back.*

You say "you took her words for what they were" and then later refer to "racist tone of most of the commentary about her, especially here on Mumsnet, we definitely have her back."

As pp's have said racism should always be called out - whether malicious or not. Listening to views that might be uncomfortable to hear doesn't mean we should put our hands over our ears.

So to my questions.

I'm sorry in advance if I've misunderstood you, but it could be argued that your post insinuates that you feel what M says is more important that what she does and that you will have her back regardless of her actions because of her ethnicity and the racism that she encounters as a result.

Is that what you think? Is she beyond criticism?

Is it unacceptable to feel that as successful woman who is part of a wealthy and privileged couple she and Harry should not expect the taxpayer to fund lifestyle choices they cannot personally afford?

Moreover is someone (I refer to both H&M here) who in a position a wealth and influence that expects to be subsidised by many people of substantially lesser wealth and influence to the tune of many millions someone to put on a pedestal and call a role model?

To be clear I think they both were and could have continued to be admirable role models if they had chosen to use their global platform for bring attention to much needed issues, but their expectation to use that platform instead to build upon already substantial personal wealth at taxpayer expense does not in my view have anything remotely admirable about it nor represent actions/qualities that I would seek to describe as worthy of being a role model to anyone anywhere.