Does anyone want a thread for people who are happy for Harry and Meghan? Thread 2

[DaveCoaches]

I wimped out of the other thread title I planned as I thought it might look goady.

But please let’s keep it as the reality-and-let's-avoid-idle-speculation-and-reliance-on-dodgy-sources thread (thanks Seneca!).

Laurie: The point being made was about ‘association’. If the Queen can give them a reward, what’s so terrible about H&M ‘associating’ themselves with the bank.

But it's been shown the Queen often gets it wrong and allows things that shouldn't be allowed - PA hanging around with Epstein.

It's not the queen's perception of what is acceptable - that's been called into question many times - it's what the public perceives as acceptable. JP Morgan can get all the awards it likes from the Queen, it still doesn't make them necessarily acceptable in the public's eye, especially given the numerous scandals associated with them. A small award from the Queen doesn't negate the bad press.

What you're saying is that the public thinks it's ok for the queen to get things wrong?

Derxa What are these missteps?

Mostly small things IMO. Probably hanging offences for others. In the spirit of this positive thread I won't be listing them. I was just explaining that I can see they're not infallible.

Yes, I agree Gracefulhippo - as a non-royal H can do what he likes, not under the royal name though regarding banks. Even so, I do still think it a grubby way of making a living.

Roussette - glad you think we agreed Not sure we did completely. Yes, we agree on the grubby milk-type deals but taking it further the damage Peter Phillips can do to the RF's reputation is less than H&M's for those type of deals. Peter Phillips also doesn't have a title.

I remember Kate designed a garden for the Chelsea Flower Show. There was a photograph of her swinging on a rope swing in the garden and the children played barefoot.

I remember thinking at the time that M would have been vilified for doing the same. It would have been seen as undignified, common, attention seeking, too American etc.

What you're saying is that the public thinks it's ok for the queen to get things wrong?

I find this bizarre. Ok for the Queen, who has decades of experience, to get things wrong, but not ok for Meghan who is totally new?

I remember thinking at the time that M would have been vilified for doing the same. It would have been seen as undignified, common, attention seeking, too American etc.

So you imagine she would have been vilified for doing this stuff in a garden if she'd done it, but she didn't, so this didn't happen?

Is it perhaps because of intent? The queen doesn’t choose to get things wrong, but Meghan had stayed her intent was to modernise and this any misstep after that is seen as intentional

Every bit of a leap?!

rocking: You have a very definite view of what should be allowed with relation to the protocols with the Royal Family, Annie, so it's understandable that you're upset.

This is nonsensical. Of course my view is irrelevant regarding protocols. A protocol is a protocol - it's a way of doing things that has to be followed if the queen says so. Nothing to do with what I think is allowed or not. When someone doesn't follow protocol though it becomes obvious and M got criticised for this - not by me. On some things I don't care but others, royalists, do. If she's married into it she needs to follow it. Mistakes get made yes but follow it you must as you've accepted it by marrying into it. I'm not upset at all btw. Enjoying the thread.

no Buttery I know it didn't happen and my post makes that clear.

Can you please not reflect things onto me though, rocking - such as "it's understandable that you're upset". This is what you think. I've not shown any upset so please don't assume things.

It's not a leap at all! It's absolutely something M would have been criticised for. She was criticised for holding her baby bump too much and hugging people!

I don't think Meghan would have been villified for a Chelsea Flower Show photo like that. What nearly did cause a problem though was that there was a "rival" garden by Cafod, a charity supported by H&M, and Buckingham Palace had to wade in and get H&M to step back from publicly supporting it (eg photo ops etc) as it was seen as Kate's Project and therefore not on to steal her thunder. I'm sure no harm was meant, and they were eager to help a charity of which they were patrons. I think this is an example of their Doing The Right Thing, as opposed to a near misstep.

Is Meghan quoted as saying she wanted to modernise the Monarchy? When did she say that?

Not sure what you meant that to show, then, everycloud

But it is clear that Meghan has been vilified in the media for doing some of the same things that other members of the RF have done with impunity. There has clearly been an agenda in certain quarters to find fault with almost everything she does. And it appears to be one of the main reasons that H and M made the decision to step back.

It's not a leap at all! It's absolutely something M would have been criticised for.

How can we know that if it didn't happen?

There are posts on the thread criticising the folly of believing what's said in the press, but on the other hand it's ok to say that in a poster's opinion something would have happened if someone had done something which they didn't actually do? How is the latter more reliable?

H&M are not perfect (by any stretch of the imagination)

The insistence by some that they haven't been portrayed unfairly when compared to other royals is baffling.

You only have to look at the reporting of her in the media and social media commentary Buttery

A photograph of her on a rope swing would have been greeted with delight when she was criticised for holding her baby bump?

Laurie: I withdraw that comment about no known scandal. Oh good. Thanks for that.

I agree they should all be criticised for associations with any scandalous organisations - all, including the queen.

I think a photo of Meghan on a rope swing with Archie playing next to her would have been greeted with delight.

Annie, change can't happen if everyone stuck to the protocols. A lot's been achieved by the people who don't just follow rules in history! I can't condemn her for following her own path. If some want to, that's fine, but she hasn't broken any laws.

I'm finding this thread a lot less upsetting as well. Some of it still seems a bit nonsensical to me too, but the atmosphere's not toxic and its more open to debate.

What happened the ‘other’ thread?

HQ posted to say there were some attempts at derailment, Laurie, and asked that folk report any concerns to them instead of engaging on the thread. Unfortunately some got involved in sniping anyway, so the whole thing got pulled

Personally I'd prefer to see the more obvious provocateurs removed instead of entire threads, but of course it's not my forum so not my decision to make

Encylo: I certainly do not stick up for them in the face of all logic. Good you point that out. Not all do, that's true. I should have made it clear in my statement that "some" do.