M & H-as-I-call-him 16

[yolofish]

Well here we are, another thread for those who wish to discuss. We are not nasty, but we do call account on what is going on, and and what taxpayers pay for.

I know she's not popular with a lot of people, but Camilla supports a lot of " unfashionable" charities. Osteoporosis, the elderly, domestic violence etc.

Meh - shame she wasn’t so principled when shagging Charles behind Diana’s back.

I guess the point I was making Kokeshi123 was in essence, governments are accountable, and the civil service is accountable, and philanthropists are not.

Instead of paying a fair amount of tax, or any at all, (in the US for eg), they can “do good” with whatever catches their eye, for as long as it does, and promote themselves with their pet projects (often times on strict conditions, for eg religious compliance and practice) hiring people without accountability or even expertise.

I certainly believe what’s best for the world is that each state provides essential services to its citizens. And charities can roll along beside that.

The problem as I see it is that governments have outsourced essential services to charities, and underfunded them also.

If you provide a service with a “yukky factor“, like mental health or addiction, philanthropy isn’t interested in your charity (they prefer Insta /photo op friendly, art, elephants, or sport), then these essential services go without funding, and the clients who are citizens, suffer.

One percent of human beings have hoarded up half the world’s wealth. I see no need for billionaires when one third of the children in the UK are living below the poverty line.

The fact that H and M want to be amongst the one percent, hobnobbing on gulfstream jets, and ‘bonding instantly’ with those in the set, and have turned their back on the poor children of the UK disgusts me.

Harry in particular had so much potential to help children, and now is pimped out by M to the highest bidder so that “what Meghan wants, Meghan gets”.

In some of the many and wonderful words of monty python: “it’s a senseless waste of human life”

@Kokeshi123

I agree re teleconference, I travel much less for work than I used to, and that is great.

My point is that we can never go back, the world moves forward and what should be done is pressure on an industry to be sustainable, not falling into the trap of guilting individuals... (and again I am thinking more about general "flygskam" behaviour than Sussex private flights)

Side note: there was something in the DM about Andrew passing on the queen's sympathy messages to the Chinese Ambassador at some Chinese New Year party. PA attended a dinner for the Chinese ambassador to UK. It's like he's being sneaked in the back door. Carry on as normal.

Yup, photos of the loathsome PA representing out country to the Chinese ambassador make my skin absolutely crawl. The Queen wittered on about being 'disappointed' by Harry but has steadfastly stood by Andrew. Great set of values, eh? He may consort with paedophiles, but as long as he doesn't bite the hand that feeds him the royal family close ranks. And you wonder why Harry & Meghan wanted to distance themselves?

Someone upthread said something about the queen making poor decisions. Time and again she's seems to be

I've thought for some time that the queen is not the brilliant figurehead keeping the monarchy going in the way people credit her with being. She misjudges public mood often and her instinctive response to a problem is to say nothing, stay aloof and keep doing what's always been done to maintain the family position. We saw how badly that went down after Diana's death - supposedly the 'as a grandmother' speech she eventually made was as a result of Alastair Campbell intervening. Likewise her initial failure to go to Aberfan, and now her silent backing of Andrew. Her approach is generally 'say nothing, carry on as normal and hope interest fades' - it's only when people get angry enough to repeatedly question the RF's privilege that she acts. She only agreed to start paying income tax after public anger at the suggestion the Windsor Castle fire repairs should come from public money.

If H&M do attend the Commonwealth Sevice (BP has refused to confirm) I hope they are seated with PA, and I expect him to do his best to fully engage them in conversation. Watching them trying to avoid getting caught associating with him will be hugely entertaining.

The DM had a story earlier about how some winkle club in Hastings is disappointed that Harry and Meghan will no longer be visiting them as was scheduled.

A winkle club in Hastings versus getting paid $$$ to pitch up at a JP Morgan event and dine with J-Lo and her husband afterwards. It certainly shows the contrast between their old life and the new one!

@Weedsnseeds1

I think Camilla is doing a great job. I hope she becomes Queen.

Camilla was a "wronged wife" for her entire marriage before reconnecting with Charles. Both their lives were a mess.

Everybody was shagging everybody in those war of the Waleses years, of course the first mistake was that Diana and Charles shouldn't have married. Charles shouldn't have proposed and Diana shouldn't have accepted at 19!!! She should have said "ask again in two years" (or ten!!!). But it was a different world...

If H&M do attend the Commonwealth Sevice

It’ll be very interesting to see if they show up. I’d imagine that it’ll be Harry on his own if they turn up at all, as Meghan can say she has to stay in Canada to look after Archie. It’ll be pretty awkward for Harry though surely, after everything that’s happened?

HMQ has been a very steady monarch. Her decisions may not always have been popular but not rocking the boat is a good thing in a monarch, I would have said.

I don't think the public make the best decisions either, and she is right not to be swayed unduly by it.

All of the public displaying of W&H after Diana's death was to feed the hunger of a ravenous crowd, and look at the fallout from it. If she'd had her way they would have stayed under wraps in Scotland for a bit longer and maybe Haich wouldn't now need to be spilling his emotional guts for a paid audience.

I don't think the driving force of H&M wanting to distance themselves from the RF was PA but money.

I agree Buttery and have said so on other threads. We're fed this myth about the queen being a brilliant figurehead as if no one could have done the job when all she's done is kept schtum half the time and wait for things to blow over. Only when her hand is forced has she done something regarding the family. She wants to keep the gravy train going for them all. She still hands out houses and titles and medals to her offspring as if they deserve them when in reality they're a very ordinary bunch, if not below average in lots of areas.

Yes @TheNavigator William does it for the cash - albeit indirectly. He was there as it’s a Royal patronage and not to get money to line his pocket. That is the difference. He had to speak on diversity as it was the pressing issue, in the same way a wealthy white CEO or chairman of a company has to.

I completely agree about the RF as a whole - I’d like to get rid of the lot of them - and with the Queen making poor decisions. Her attitude regarding Andrew has been wry poor, which I’ve said on the Andrew thread.

"All of the public displaying of W&H after Diana's death was to feed the hunger of a ravenous crowd, and look at the fallout from it." That's what I mean, poor decisions. Although PC could be to blame for that too as the dad, and all the other adults could have voiced an opinion. It would not have gone down badly with the public if they had said PW and PH will be mourning in private. There was no need for it.

I've said before the RF carrying on this myth that they are somehow special is not good for anyone's mental health. To elevate your child, such as George to come, and plant the seed that they are somehow special, to have people being obsequious to them, to be on display, to carry on the idea that they are somehow better than everyone else, because that is the reality of it, is a recipe for disaster. Nothing is on merit. The imposter syndrome must be off the scale if you have any conscious whatsoever. Or are they so brainwashed that they believe this is their right? Whatever, they all seem to do their utmost to stay on the gravy train. Makes me sick.

fleas the public were also behaving in a very extreme way at the time - but (I've said this before on earlier threads) the Queen held back herself when she could have made an earlier statement, put herself out there and asked for privacy to protect the boys. I think that would have had more chance of being respected, and it's what I would have done for my children or grandchildren. Instead it was William and Harry centre stage after the initial time at Balmoral - out looking at flowers at Kensington Palace, then the hideous coffin walk. The queen must have signed off on that.

annielouise yes, agreed! The Andrew decisions have been among the worst.

I agree, there was no need to make them appear in public in such a way..... walk miles behind the coffin, especially in some sort of RAF fly past formation.
It was utterly insensitive to who the were... children.

Why weren’t they allowed to hold hands? Or have the two boys walking together and supporting each other together in the middle.

It was utterly bizarre, and dare I say it, almost abusive.
Like PC used them as a human shield.

I would be really interested to know how many people in this country support a monarchy. It would be a brave PM who held a referendum on that. It couldn't happen because of the relationship between the monarchy and the government.
So how democratic is Britain really? When the people really don't get a say in whether their taxes go to this family and the very outdated system it is perpetuating?

There had been no statement from the palace and a refusal to lower the flag a BP halfway. That wasn't the done thing according to royal protocol which the queen was sticking to. All she had to do was come out with something human and half lower a flag and the public would have been appeased. The mood of the public changed. The queen didn't have her finger on the pulse at all. Instead she seemingly went to the other extreme to appease the public and chucked her grandsons under a bus to save the monarchy. Just ridiculously poor decision making - do nothing for ages then go to the other extreme. All she had to do was make a speech about Diana and lower the bloody flag.

Yes, it was a human shield coffee. Like the public won't kick off at us with them there.

When the people really don't get a say in whether their taxes go to this family and the very outdated system it is perpetuating?

I’m ok (just about) with supporting the Queen with my hard-earned money, but definitely not Charles and Camilla. I suspect a lot of the public feel the same way.

The thing is, Diana was not a member of the RF at the time of her death. She was an ex member and not a blood Royal. So this is why I think the Queen thought that her funeral etc was nothing to do with her any more. Obviously she wanted to protect her grandsons by hiding them away in Balmoral, but, to misquote Monty Python, she was an ex RF member, she had ceased to be (a member of the RF), she had run up the mighty coil and joined the divorcee choir invisibule.

It would not have gone down badly with the public if they had said PW and PH will be mourning in private.

I'm afraid it would have. Buttery is right, the public were behaving in a very extreme way at the time. When Diana's coffin made its journey to Althorp there were people lining the streets weeping and wailing out loud, it was awful, undignified, self indulgent.

Nothing would satisfy the public at that time but for the Queen to come back to London and present herself, presumably with the two boys, and the sodding flag to be lowered, for what purpose I don't know.

Twice in my lifetime I have felt really ashamed to be British, and the British people's conduct over Diana's death was one of them.

Oh, and I agree H&M were used as a human shield, but by PC, who was very unpopular and feared for his own safety.

I think if the queen had acted faster in showing some respect for her grandsons' mother by releasing a statement, or PC had, and they had lowered the flag it would have headed off a lot of the bad feeling that was building because there was nothing. I don't think anyone expected the two boys to walk behind their mother's coffin or were expecting it. Timely action would have diffused the situation, but the queen didn't think herself accountable to anyone then had to make the grand gesture. She left it too long when she could have done something. It was their silence that allowed the situation to build up to the extent it did.

royals always walk behind coffins, direct relatives in particular, and the boys were direct relatives, even if they were young.

Prince Phillip is photographed walking behind his sister's coffin when he was 14 or something like that. So its tradition, rather than a human shield.

I think the boys were given the option to say 'no' though, I think Dickie Arbriter said something like that - he was the palace press secretary at the time.

Also my friend who is a lip-reader says you can see both PC and CS asking the boys at different times if they are okay and/or patting their backs.

Hard to believe but between Diana dying and the queen giving her speech was only five days. The backlash in those five days was tremendous. Lowering the flag and either PC or the queen releasing something, didn't have to be on TV, would have appeased a lot of the public, at least for a while. Diana's funeral was the next day. Again the queen, in my view, made terrible decisions and only acted when the public mood was such she had to. She didn't want to bend to the public's will but ended up having to. Just terrible leadership, imo.