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The royal family

M & H-as-I-call-him 16

999 replies

yolofish · 03/02/2020 21:41

Well here we are, another thread for those who wish to discuss. We are not nasty, but we do call account on what is going on, and and what taxpayers pay for.

OP posts:
Goldengroveunleaving · 07/02/2020 13:11

I think that in Elizabethan English (or thereabouts) we would have said "We have forgot" rather than "We have forgotten". So at one time it was "gotten" and "forgotten", at one time it was "got" and "forgot", and now (in the UK) it is "got" but "forgotten"!

My young colleague (who has never set foot in the US, or "stepped foot" which I think is another US usage becoming common here) says "elevator" and "gotten" because she watches so many American programmes! (She's lovely and I never say a word about it ...)

Goldengroveunleaving · 07/02/2020 13:15

The same colleague also pronounces "clerk" as spelt, presumably for the same reason.

LaMarschallin · 07/02/2020 13:27

rocking

You're right, it is easy to pick up phrases from your partner. "Gotten" just sounded clunky to me and perhaps wasn't the best use of words in a formal speech.

I suppose the other thing is presumably he wouldn't want it to sound as though MM had written the speech for him.

Although, having said that, perhaps he did want to show that they'd come up with it together. Picky little details, I know, but probably the sort of thing a professional speech writer would think of.

The optics are important but the aurals (not sure how to phrase that Smile) can be too.

rockingchaircandle · 07/02/2020 13:34

@Goldengroveunleaving that is really interesting! It made me google 'clerk' and I thought this was interesting about Dr Johnson's role (no idea how true) www.quora.com/Why-is-clerk-pronounced-kl%C9%91k-in-British-English?share=1 disclaimer: sorry nothing to do with M&H, just wanted to say thanks and share, and will stop now!

LaMarschallin · 07/02/2020 13:38

Seneca

For example, I never say "It is I" or "It is they', both of which are excruciatingly correct.

Yes, I think that usage now sounds awkward. I remember reading school stories that had sentences like " 'It's me!' said Sally, ungrammatically", so you'd know the author knew the correct form even if their characters didn't 🙂

SenecaFallsRedux · 07/02/2020 13:48

Although I do still say "this is she", but come to think of it, the need to say that has diminished considerably with the use of cell mobile phones. Seldom do I need to reply to "may I speak to Seneca, please."

SenecaFallsRedux · 07/02/2020 13:54

Interesting about Dr. Johnson. Noah Webster is largely responsible in the US for getting rid of those pesky "r's" in words like honor and color.

SenecaFallsRedux · 07/02/2020 13:55

oops. Pesky "u's" that would be. We still have the "r's." And we pronounce them. Smile

Goldengroveunleaving · 07/02/2020 14:04

Thank you rocking, especially for the link - I would certainly never have thought that "Armitage" was related to "Hermitage", in particular!

Last Englishy bit (realise this is all totally OT): there is a river called the Nadder, and the reason it's called that relates to adders (the snakes), because originally we would have said "a nadder" rather than "an adder". (Pity I don't know more useful and less useless information.)

CanIHaveATiaraPlease · 07/02/2020 14:10

Nothing to add to this brilliant conversation except to say Goldengrove that golden grove is my favourite ever poem. It makes me cry every time I read it.

Goldengroveunleaving · 07/02/2020 14:17

Tiara thank you Smile. I love it too, and get what Hopkins meant.

Weedsnseeds1 · 07/02/2020 14:18

Beatrice wedding announced as 29th May, Chapel Royal. Guest list to be confirmed!

Goldengroveunleaving · 07/02/2020 14:23

Wedding, yay! Do love a good Royal wedding ... pity PA will rather take the shine off this one.

7Worfs · 07/02/2020 14:23

A lot of americanisms are brought to the U.K. by continental Europeans (such as I/me Wink).
I used to say elevator, chips for crisps, pants for trousers, cookies, etc

I’ve largely stopped now, as it grated on DH.

Last remaining mispronounced word is schedule.

SenecaFallsRedux · 07/02/2020 14:49

That Hopkins poem is one of my favorites too. And note that he uses the American "Fall" in the title, which of course works better for the theme.

Goldengroveunleaving · 07/02/2020 14:58

And note that he uses the American "Fall" in the title, which of course works better for the theme.

So he does! (And so it does.) I've never really registered that before - that it was American, in the context I mean.

CanIHaveATiaraPlease · 07/02/2020 15:20

Me neither Blush

MysticMeghan · 07/02/2020 16:44

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51415860

Prince Beatrice has announced that her wedding is to be on 29th May. This gives MM approx 15 weeks to get preggers and announce the pregnancy the morning of the wedding.

Get shagging! Grin

OVienna · 07/02/2020 16:47

Finding this thread to make the call to arms re the wedding announcement. Brave girl. I'm betting on an airing of the Ellen interview that night. Oprah? It's all gone vair quiet in the Colonies lately, I have noticed (I think - unless I've missed something.)

DandyDuchess · 07/02/2020 16:48

I feel uncomfortable about Bea’s wedding given what’s going on with her father. Obviously nothing to do with me but the juxtaposition of Prince Andrew giving away a beautiful young woman, with his potential knowledge of Epstein trafficking and abusing young women & girls does not sit right with me.

At this point in time, I don’t think Meghan will be at Beamain.

I do think she’ll be at the Oscars, and I think I’ve decided on my dress. Will reveal later.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 07/02/2020 16:53

They (H&M) were the keynote speakers at a JPMorgan event in Miami, last night. A gig for which they will have been paid. God knows what they would have talked about, but I expect we will hear soon enough.

DandyDuchess · 07/02/2020 16:59

Ok that’s blatant sucking on the corporate teat.

I expected a bit more subtlety.

7salmonswimming · 07/02/2020 17:04

Don’t mean to stop the flow of linguistic chat (loving it!) but thinking about the entirety of the Harry & Meghan debacle, where are all the advisers? The couple are behaving like entitled rich people with an inflated sense of importance and relevance, which is what they are and what members of the RF have always been (at best, and with very few exceptions). But in the past a lid has been kept on most of the excesses by the men in grey having told them what they can/can’t do in public in order to preserve the reputation of the institution. Where have these people gone? Are they being replaced by these new advisers we hear of, the ex-Conservative Party PR people, the Hollywood agents, the revolving doors of PAs and whatnot? These people’s priority isn’t to the institution of monarchy.

Now that they’ve been out of the papers for a few days, I think about the engagement shot of MM at the time of the announcement (boobs up and out, high heels, hair flowing in the wind, tinkly little shoulder height wave), the $50,000 dress in the b&w engagement photos, the excessively white wedding gowns, the re-setting of the engagement ring, the emptied out seats in a radius around her at Wimbledon, the Givenchy maternity gowns (maternity!!) - it was all aimed at the LA circus. But what works in LA doesn’t work in Scunthorpe. I wonder if Anne or HMQ herself have ever worn Givenchy, let alone maternity wear.

Then looking back in the High St clothes, the re-wears, the efforts at The Hub, the Smartworks effort - it seemed her heart was in it and she found fulfillment in being truer to herself. She enjoyed it all, as did the people around her seemingly, and the efforts were appreciated.

She’s been floundering, doesn’t know what to do and how to do it best. She doesn’t have anyone watching out for her and who can help her navigate all this stuff (no Carol Middleton, for example). Perhaps Doria is wonderful and loving, but it takes more than that. It’s so unintelligent and short sighted to have come out with stuff like not knowing who H was before she met him; complaining about surviving not thriving on a goodwill visit to the impoverished; nobody asking if she’s OK. A semi-decent adviser wouldn’t have allowed any of this because it’s so obviously wrong. Frankly, anyone who had her best interests at heart would have advised against it. If she were my daughter, I’d be gently setting her on the right path, listening to her vent and suggesting that perhaps she work things out behind closed doors.

This isn’t a criticism of Doria, though, because something tells me MM won’t be told. That she thinks she knows best - indeed better, because she’s hustled and she’s made it. She doesn’t appreciate her own limitations, let alone her husband’s.

As for her husband, where to start. I’m sure he’s gung-ho about it all, perhaps with private misgivings which he’s not listening to or trusting. You don’t wrench yourself away from your roots (and his are deeeeeeeep) easily, under any circumstance. There are always consequences.

I just see a couple who’ve been let to do what they think is right. At touching 40, what can anyone do? But they’re acting like teenagers: think they know it all, no idea of the repercussions for them (let alone anyone else) of getting it wrong, won’t be told, totally lacking in circumspection. If they succeed it’ll only be because there are people watching over them in the background, saving them (and the RF) from themselves. But I don’t think it’ll get that far. She has no idea how clipped her wings are by being married to him, and he’s trying to run away not realising he’s still tied to the RF root and branch.

It’ll be a salutary tale. Harry and Meghan Markle. Just like Charles and Diana.

yolofish · 07/02/2020 17:04

oof fleas. have they put it on insta yet? (I cant work out how to do insta although my dds are on it...)

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Myimaginarycathasfleas · 07/02/2020 17:10

I expected a bit more subtlety.

I'm not sure I did.

Look, to my mind she is what she is, and he loves her for it, nobody else has to.

It seems to me the RF got the measure of her early on but have been treading on egg shells for Harry's sake. Now they don't need to worry so much.

If H&M can be self supporting that has to be a good thing. They aren't much cop as royals but they might well cut it as Kardashian-style celebrities.