Harry and Meghan (15)

[Froq]

No harm in having it ready for the next event/announcement...

Many posters have expressed the view that Rocking feels "superior" ,is patronising,that she's setting herself up as the arbitrator of what should and shouldn't be said ,that she thinks her opinion is needed in order to correct others faulty opinions.

Rocking has said she's happy with her posting style .

It's all been said ,why keep going back to it ? Why not start a thread " "Over here if you'd like to criticise Rocking " ? Or talk to MNHQ about how dreadful she is and can she be removed ? And how you'd like asking posters to back up claims added to something that breaks Talk guidelines ?

Or perhaps ppl enjoy this kind of personal attack on another poster more than they do discussing H&M ?

Actually I think rocking has responded to feedback and we've been able to have some positive chat as a result. We all have our own style of posting, which keeps the thread interesting, wouldn't want us all to sound the same. As long as everyone is kind and respectful to each other we can manage our differences of opinion.

Aaaaand getting back on topic..

Does anyone think they could come back here? If it doesn’t work out in Canada could they come back here and go ‘back’ to how it was?

I don’t think Thomas Markle will want the court case dropped. Even if Daily Mail lose they will want that day in court as it will be worth all the gossip that comes out.

There is nothing much to discuss imo, certainly nothing new.

"H and M" should return (in my mind) to being the name of a shop!

...and there is the court case.

It is the Streisand effect.

Chickens it feels like too many bridges have been burned. I mean in practice of course they can physically return and live at Frogmore, but I think their popularity has really been hit hard here. I can't see them doing royal duties here as the RF might fear the backlash or heckling, same as PA. I don't think anyone wants to see them fumbling to "collaborate" with the Queen while pushing merch or pitching MM's skills at sleb events here.

I have some sympathy with the view that M wouldn't want Archie to play second fiddle and in my heart of hearts I'd feel the same. There is a distinct hierarchy in the RF and plenty of favouritism too.

George, like it or not, is The Chosen One, and Charlotte and Louis his backup team. Archie has no place in that. Whether he would care or not is a moot point but his mother might on his behalf.

In my view the Cambridges were wise to have more than two children. It spreads the psychological load of being The Spare. Even if Harry really didn't want the job, and he clearly doesn't, the fact that everyone sees your brother as more important than you must sting a bit. And he had no-one to share that with. No wonder he was bowled over by M who as an American wouldn't see him in that light.

"H and M" should return (in my mind) to being the name of a shop!

At some point though there has to be a move away, doesn't there?

Archie at some point should be the GS of a monarch & I'm sure people would say it's fine for him to do Royal duties & be paid.

But if it hands over to William & then George, should they be expected to have him supporting them & pay for him & ultimately his family?

I'm sure Charles would like H&M to do royal duties if he's King, but they all really need a back up for when that no longer works.

If Charles doesn't want Anne & Edward & Sophie for example, what will they then do?

Although HM probably has enough private wealth to divide between Anne, Andrew & Edward.

I agree with Jeans, I think their popularity has taken a real hit.

Going back to Buttery's straw poll, I did say I thought they would be back in a month or so, based on them just not being able to cope with the worldwide press intrusion outside the protection of the royal circle. If they find they can, then I don't see any reason for them to return, or any chance of rehabilitation if they do.

If they go the full LA route, I think it's game over for them.

Also agree that their popularity has taken a nosedive. And I'm not sure how they could 'rehabilitate' themselves. After all I very much doubt anyone wants a hearts bared, warts 'n all dissection of their feelings!

I'm also wondering about how it feels to move from a very structured lifestyle to one with no structure at all?

People often struggle in retirement with no framework to their days, no routine etc.

Popularity with the Royals is a long game though. Look at Camilla. Once thoroughly vilified, now integrated into the family, and it seems like only a small minority will object to her becoming Queen (which she will, now). The Sussexes have had a lot of criticism but, depending on what happens in the interim, people would have forgotten / be willing to drop that in a couple of years' time.

In terms of sharing out royal duties, it doesn't have to be H&M. Beatrice and Eugenie represent HMQ extremely well. There is this issue of being a "blood" royal, but Sophie is as good as, certainly in the Queen's estimation. And she will be training Lady Louise in the same tradition, she's already including her in events.

William I think has the idea of focusing on projects and themes rather than lifelong patronages and that seems a good way of spreading themselves more thinly while having the same impact.

Of course they will always be family, but I think the waters could close quite quickly over H&M's heads, with no role for them in the future setup.

It's all been said ,why keep going back to it ?

Because Rocking keeps doing it. Like Rocking says, it's a public forum, expect to be criticised and challenged on what you say and how you say it

I see there’s some controversy about Jessica Maloney’s tweet about ‘pretty pictures’ and no substance. Taken to be a dig at Kate.
If true, would suggest M is bitching to J about Kate. If true, that is.

if they return M cant be patient like Camilla did.
it seems only H can return with less problems.

I think M would rather be burned at the stake than return to the RF. I think she absolutely hated it.

@catherineofAragon
@CurlyWurly

Where have you gone? You are missed!

Meghan and Harry should have weighed everything up before they got married; what their responsibilities would be to the RF, what their duties would be and what their child/ children’s position would be, but no, I bet they just thought everyone would say yes to all their ideas and wants, and never considered any challenges or negative responses. Kate and William took plenty of time and tat was the right way to go.

I see there’s some controversy about Jessica Maloney’s tweet about ‘pretty pictures’ and no substance. Taken to be a dig at Kate. If true, would suggest M is bitching to J about Kate. If true, that is.

I dunno, that Mulroney woman is a law unto herself. Not short on self esteem either. I imagine she thought she had something worth saying. She doesn't.

Ok, thank you for the posters who recognised I am trying and said so! Maybe I'm not trying hard enough. I'm not always as diplomatic as I could be, I get frustrated and think "but, but, but... You did it first etc". Which is childish, and I wouldn't accept it from my daughter so I should be doing better here! I think @Encyclo said something about how we all feel we're acting in the right, and justly (you said it much better I think, but my phone keeps crashing) so it's all a bit futile. I can't change my opinions about the thread's contents, and wider effects but I will try not to get petty etc.

I absolutely, 100% don't want academic citations (not least because it'll remind me of work I should be doing but can't concentrate on now!) Or anything, it's up to everybody to post at they see fit. Experience can definitely help us interpret situations, but unexamined can lead us to be unconsciously bias. Sources unexamined can be just as bad, and misused. And in the wider world there seems to be a dangerous swing against evidence and experts (I'm definitely not one!) which maybe makes me more sensitive than I should be on a discussion forum. If people's opinions are here on a public forum I think they can be examined and challenged so I won't be going anywhere but I will watch my tone as it's hard with text. I imagine if we all had a conference call it'd either be disastrous or we'd sort the whole thing out in 20 min!

I've learned a lot about the Royals from this thread, and I have changed my mind on some things. I was going to turf them all out on my first day as PM but I think I'll set them up with a nice apprenticeship first...

TLDR: I know it will get heated again, but I will try to act with the best intentions and a bit more grace!

Great post, and very gracious, rocking.

Yes, much appreciated rocking.

Nice post rocking.

Going back a few pages, someone mentioned Andrew not being in any real danger in the Falklands. I recall reading (no sources!) that his helicopter acted as a decoy for incoming missiles, so he was playing a very real part if that was the case. We're all learning from these threads!

I recall reading (no sources!) that his helicopter acted as a decoy for incoming missiles, so he was playing a very real part if that was the case.
Do you genuinely believe that a helicopter containing a member of the royal family was used as a decoy for missiles?