Returning new kittens - why didn't this work?

[FindingTheBalance]

This morning my husband and I had a long discussion and the conclusion is that our 8 month old kittens, who joined us five weeks ago, have to go back to the rescue. 😫

I feel really flat. And also confused how other families have kittens and kids at the same time.

Our kids aren't really young. They're 7 and 9 but they still have toys. The last five weeks has involved cats chewing houseplants, toys, one eating Lego, cats chewing the kids shoes, cats chewing the kids blankets and clothes. No matter how often I ask the kids to tidy stuff away they forget and leave stuff out.

Our kittens do have periodontal disease, which may explain the chewing, but reading online it sounds like the majority of rescue cats have this.

One is slightly incontinent too and often doesn't know he's goings (mostly poo but if we let him on the sofa wee stains appear too.).

My husband has rightly pointed out we can't have poo and wee everywhere and that the surfaces are covered in cat litter dust. The cats drop their food everywhere when eating probably because of the dental disease. They're restricted to one room because they chew everything.

Over five weeks I've done numerous vet visits, bought everything going to help tackle the dental disease, read and read and read cat forums for advice. My husband says it's taken over my life and I'm neglecting the kids, him, my health and the house. He's not wrong, it's like making the cat situation work has become an obsession for me.

So that's that. It's not working. But I don't get how others get it to work.

I haven't read the whole thread but all of @FindingTheBalance replies.

For perspective, we adopted two seven month old kittens from rescue just over two years ago.

They had an horrific start in life. Rescued in Greece at about four weeks old and from four weeks they lived in a pen with a road journey from Greece in the mix. The rescue waited for experienced cat owners because they didn't think upheaval to Foster and out was right for them.

They were probably semi feral and one was exceptionally anxious. We kept them in the family room fkr about four weeks and reliably used the litter trays although one hid under the cupboard for three weeks and took about three months to be comfortable with strokes and about a year to become a lap cat. They got the run of the house after about six weeks and about a month later went out although it took them another couple of months to learn to use the cat flap.

They came to us chipped and spayed. They certainly weren't socialised. As former "street" cats they are very food orientated and do jump the counters if food is out. Even now two years in one had the covering off a Barnsley chop left on the side recently.

The very anxious one is prone to a wee on the kitchen counter. They both have periodontal disease, probably due to calici virus as very small kittens. One has had three teeth removed and the other is booked to have two/three out in a couple of weeks. Severe periodontal disease does not respond to gel. The teeth have to come out. They do not chew stuff.

Our old boy had perfect teeth and never even needed a dental in all his 15 years, but was an absolute bugger with chewing, always wires. Many a charger was wrecked and we resorted to slavering wires with washing up liquid and protective sheaths.

Your family and these cats do not seem compatible and I would venture to suggest that you need a decent vet. Incontinence that is not wilful sounds as though there may be a physical cause. Severe periodontal disease requires the removal of teeth.

Plenty of feliway and stress medication may help.

Small cats are hard work to manage and clean up after but it should not be all encompassing. 30-40 minutes a day doing trays, sweeping and wiping down should do it. If it's at the expense of general family life and overall household management then something is badly wrong. Either with the cats or it is simply too much for you.

The chewing may be a way of easing irritation with their gums. Have you spoken to the vet about the constant chewing and what may be causing it? Take them to another vetfor a second opinion. As far as the rest goes, my sympathies are with you my old dog who's now 14 spent the first 12 months of his life attacking me, think Kato in the Pink Panther films. I've still got the scars years later. The incontinence is something different. Your husband is correct, you can't have this in your home. What has the vet suggested as there must be a reason for the cat to be doing this? Are these from a feral litter as some of the behaviours you've described fit ferals. If they are ferals they need to be out so speak to the rescue and most of all, make sure the rescue plays its part in finding out whats going on. Where did they come from, is incontinence the resultof past trauma? You shouldn't be spending all your time trying to solve the cats' problems, the rescue should be helping and no, shouldn't be this hard but it may get better if someone gives you answers and support. Good luck.

Thank you for summarising it all. It's the fact it's taken over my life and my husband sat me down and reminded me about all the things I've been neglecting over the last five weeks.

Today was easier as they got the confidence to start exploring the garden, and I just stood and watch them sniff and explore and not chew anything which surprised me. It was adorable. I nearly went back on the decision and then my husband reminded me how we can't relax in our home and how that isn't sustainable. It still feels so overwhelmingly sad but I'm trying to think with my head and not my heart.

Your kids are young. You rehomed sick kittens, the dental thing you might be able to overcome, the kittens were in their naughty stage(around 5-10 months kittens are nuts, losing their baby teeth, feeling invincible, coming into first heat and needing neutering, scratching, climbing, exploring like teens), the incontinence thing is a problem if it cant be treated DH is right cat poo is toxic and you have little ones, also I'd use wood litter to limit the dust

How do people manage, ideally they get healthy ones either a bit younger so you can settle them before they hit puberty or a little later so they're grown.

Oh and patience... a lot of patience

Yes all neutered.

Might it help to rehome your husband?

Our motivation was having had a previous cat.

If it's not too personal a question, do you have experience of having children?

My 7 and 9 year old cannot keep their toys in their bedrooms. There's too many toys to fit in there and the bedrooms have always been low stimulation places; books and soft toys only. My seven year old also likes to set up toys scenes around the house. At the moment most of the Sylvanian Families are out in the living room. So the cats can't go in that room. My children cannot reliably remember to shut doors. I wish they could. But I have shouted "door!" so so many times over the last 5 weeks and had to chase cats to bring them back to the kitchen-diner.

Our lesson to our kids is that unless you can create a safe haven for cats where everything can be locked away in a cupboard, you shouldn't get cats. It would have been helpful if I'd realised that beforehand but at least our kids have learnt that lesson now.

If I could think of something else to try, I would try beyond a month. But I'm out of ideas, hence asking people who have had children, how they've made this situation work.

The way your kittens are isn't normal. We got kittens when our kids were similar age and it wasn't an issue. Only thing was they managed to tear some curtains from climbing them. By 8months they were like full grown cats and we certainly never had toileting issues or them chewing everything?
And ours were rescues.
I don't think the rescue you got these from can have been reputable as it sounds like you've been scammed. They must have been 6-7mths when you got them. I'd bet they had already been homed once and returned due to their health issues.

No, he's the only sane adult in our house. He's the one who sat me down for the intervention because I'd spent five weeks focussing almost exclusively on cats.

I was worried about the disruption when we adopted our sole, hand-readered kitten at 10 weeks as I have children similar age to yours. There was not a single toilet accident at all, and nothing was destroyed apart from a bit of scratching to a wicker chair. I think you've been given a really raw deal - I would be so strung out by now if I'd been dealing with what you have been!c It's not normal, or proportionate. You're not a cat saint, here to sacrifce your life on the temple of tender kitten care! Good luck with the next step.

No, I haven't spoken to the vet about the chewing. It's not constant, it's just really random and often frantic, and can include any object which is why we can't control it. And it sometimes involves ingesting what they chew which worries me
I saw that story about the kitten hospitalised for eating a foam dart and though, "crikey, that could be one of our kittens".

But I did read online that chewing is more common in cats with periodontal disease.

I'm sorry to hear you're dog left you scarred. Although I'm glad he's been your companion for 14 years.

No, the vet said to monitor the random pooing. I was about to book the cat in with the vet again and my husband sat me down and said enough is enough. The rescue have said they will isolate this kitten and observe further.

No past physical trauma to my knowledge. But the cats had a difficult start to life requiring hand rearing and their siblings not surviving.

Not a feral litter. Hand reared around other adult cats.

The rescue have offered to investigate the pooing cat once they have the cats back in their care.

I've been rescuing dogs and cats for charities, home checking for adoptions temperament testing the lot. Sorry Op but 5 weeks isn't a long time. Great for someone to summarise your situation for the benefit of nobody but the point you're missing is people have read your post and are trying to offer constructive solutions as five weeks is a very short time for a rescue to settle sometimes. Why have you posted this anyhow, do you need people to support your decision? What are you expecting people to say? Don't adopt any more if five weeks is all you can give.

The vets who have checked the cats (four in total now) have all said periodontal disease and in one case it was so bad all the gums were swollen around the teeth with significant food impaction. I think they're too old to be teething at 8 months, no?

I posted because I was hoping someone would say, "hey, we had kids and kittens, this is how we did it". I haven't seen that yet. Besides someone telling me to change the kids playroom to an indoor catio, which just seems to be moving them from one single room to another single room. And someone telling me my children should be able to shut doors and not play with toys outside their bedrooms, which I don't think they're capable of and also doesn't feel fair on my children as it's their house to enjoy too. I don't want to banish them to their bedrooms. Or people saying, "what are you worried about, just let the cats roam and if they eat stuff they eat stuff" but I just can't do that as my conscience says that's not keeping that cats safe.

To be honest, I can't see a solution, so maybe there isn't one.

We've adopted an adult cat before and it all worked out five. I agree we will never adopt kittens again as our house just isn't suitable.

@FindingTheBalance this situation is awful, but I don’t think it’s that your home isn’t suitable for cats. All cats have their own wee quirks - our previous cat used to steal and hoard nail files/emery boards so we had to keep them away from her - but it sounds like you are dealing with something far more significant than that medically which no amount of keeping nail files in a box will fix.

Sorry to hear you have been going through this OP. I got 3 brother cats a few years ago and it was a little chaotic at first. They were born feral and hadn’t ever been in a house before I got them. They were around 18 months old so full sized. They pulled 2 sets of curtains down (pole came out of the wall… I still haven’t put one set back up), ruined the carpet in one room that I didn’t realise they were sneaking in to use as a toilet and sounded like 3 bowling balls running around in the middle of the night at times.

They did get the hang of the litter tray and after I threw out the whole carpet (and a mattress by thought also made an excellent toilet), throughly scrubbed the floors before putting nice new flooring down and they have been fine since. I do keep them out of bedrooms though as I don’t trust them not to ruin my new mattresses.

They also drop a lot of food around their bowl. To combat this I have a lipped mat and put their food in a huge dog bowl so it mostly falls back down into the bowl rather than next to it like when they had cat bowls.

They have never once chewed anything though. As I say, they were around 18 months when I got them so quite a lot older than yours. I have known them since birth (their feral mother appeared at a friend’s stables and then had them there. I took them on once I moved from rented to my own home) and don’t remember them chewing anything there, but there is a limited amount of stuff they could chew there and they were out and about with their mum doing whatever feral cats do (murder stuff I suspect lol).

I think maybe you need to take these 3 back and adopt an older single cat. There are plenty of cats like that in rescues who already have ‘house manners’ and will be more like your old cat. I have never found that cats seem to worry too much about having feline company. Their mother hasn’t been distressed at all that they are no longer with her. Same with my friend’s cat when her other one passed away. The one left is absolutely fine. She did try and rescue a couple of others but her older cat was very unhappy with them being in the house and would be nasty to them so she had to take them back after months of trying to see if he would eventually accept them.

That doesn't sound sustainable at all - you can't have cat poop and children mixing together. You've tried really hard.
A compassionate vet will talk this through with you honestly, it's a lot to carry alone.

I'm so impressed you persevered through all that and came out the other side with three domesticated cats.

Yes, sensible head should have adopted another adult cat.

I thought we'd cat proofed.and could adopt kittens. We also lost a pair of curtains, and nearly another before I thought to take them down. But said, ok, no curtains for a while, that's fine.

Then I walked into the kids playroom and found one cat chewing a Lego model to pieces and then she swallowed a piece. I panicked and took all three cats back to the kitchen-diner where their beds, food and litter was, shut the door and they've been in their since when not supervised (alongside access to the garden since Monday). I keep trying them in other rooms where I can supervise them and briefly think, "this is working", but then one will start biting something like an ornament, or a plant (we do have cat safe hanging ones in the kitchen and I caught one of the girl cats trying to hang off it the other day while chewing through the stem), or the curtains in that room, or a chair leg, or a lamp wire, or the handle of a window frame etc and I end up taking them back to the kitchen-diner because I can't keep supervising them.

I want so much to be able to relax and just let them roam. It's driving me a little nuts.

Even the kitchen-diner doesn't feel safe. Boy cat was gnawing on the blind cable the other day. It's childproofed so he can't strangle himself but I kept thinking if he chews through it in the night, can he ingest some of the chain? I lay awake at night worrying I've overlooked something in that room and they're eating stuff they shouldn't.

This article probably didn't help my worrying: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cew1712k700o

kittens and cats are actually pretty easy. You got unlucky with 2 that have health problems. If they were healthy there would not have been an issue, I promise.

I think unfortunately you have gone from never having had kittens before to having 2 unwell rescue kittens who are much older than they would normally be when you buy a kitten! It sounds like a recipe for disaster doesn’t it? We took on 2 feral rescue kittens at our farm when they were 4 months old and they were evidently
much older than previous house kittens we had owned. The older they are the harder it is to teach them how to live in a house alongside things like children’s toys, and not to scratch furniture, be house trained etc. I think you have set yourself up for failure a bit by getting these kittens / young cats instead of buying 1 healthy kitten from a reputable breeder or a rescue centre. The rescue you got them from
sounds dodgy too if they ‘didn’t know’ about the cats medical issues including incontinence, a severe dental disease and behavioural issues. Honestly you’d be better to return them and either get a younger kitten from a proper rescue place or buy one from a good breeder. Kittens are hard work but not that difficult.

I thought the incontinent one would be PTS too, poor baby. Have you tried food for kittens with digestive issues?

Most kittens (I’ve had many) don’t chew everything like this. I suspect it’s their health problems so if this is temporary the chewing issue may resolve. Mine have chewed a few things (one used to eat headphone wires) but we leave all the toys out all the time and the cats have free range all over the house .

Would they be pts in the UK? It's a very reputable rescue and I'd be very surprised. They've said they're going to isolate the incontinent one for observations.

No, I'm swapping their diet for a dental one but not a digestive one. Surely there could be other causes for random pooing. Before agreeing to return the cats to the rescue I was planning to go back to the vet to see what they advised next.

I think you're being so hard on yourself, OP. Your home and family probably aren't unsuitable for kittens at all, but these are not normal kittens. The real lesson for your kids is that when we find ourselves out of our depth, we ask for help. These animals need skilled input, not just a normal, busy family home, which would ordinarily have been just fine.