Returning new kittens - why didn't this work?

[FindingTheBalance]

This morning my husband and I had a long discussion and the conclusion is that our 8 month old kittens, who joined us five weeks ago, have to go back to the rescue. 😫

I feel really flat. And also confused how other families have kittens and kids at the same time.

Our kids aren't really young. They're 7 and 9 but they still have toys. The last five weeks has involved cats chewing houseplants, toys, one eating Lego, cats chewing the kids shoes, cats chewing the kids blankets and clothes. No matter how often I ask the kids to tidy stuff away they forget and leave stuff out.

Our kittens do have periodontal disease, which may explain the chewing, but reading online it sounds like the majority of rescue cats have this.

One is slightly incontinent too and often doesn't know he's goings (mostly poo but if we let him on the sofa wee stains appear too.).

My husband has rightly pointed out we can't have poo and wee everywhere and that the surfaces are covered in cat litter dust. The cats drop their food everywhere when eating probably because of the dental disease. They're restricted to one room because they chew everything.

Over five weeks I've done numerous vet visits, bought everything going to help tackle the dental disease, read and read and read cat forums for advice. My husband says it's taken over my life and I'm neglecting the kids, him, my health and the house. He's not wrong, it's like making the cat situation work has become an obsession for me.

So that's that. It's not working. But I don't get how others get it to work.

The prognosis from the vets is that the periodontal disease is for life but with management may calm down by age two before flaring up again later in life, usually leading to teeth extractions. Hence the prescribed paste from the vet and then me doing far too much googling and trying to find better kibble, treats, water additives and chew toys that help tackle plaque.

Some cats/kittens have sensitive stomachs and just need a different food for cats with digestive problems. It's worth asking the vet.

Ok, fair point. I hope they've learnt that lesson, that we ask for help.

Ok, I'll add it to the list of things to ask or suggest the rescue asked, although I suspect they've thought of that. Thank you.

I keep forgetting about the poo. I know that sounds nuts but we only find one every other day. I was hoovering this evening and ran over one (they're so small I often mistake then for mud/fluffy/cat food). Luckily we have hard floors so it's just a case of wiping down the floor and hoover. I do wonder if he's pooed in the bookcases though. They're his favourite perching place.

I think some people have been very unkind. I got a young kitten with a toddler - he’s 5 now and never chewed a thing. Occasionally wees somewhere odd or makes a mess of food or scratches a sofa etc but nothing like you describe. I’ve never known anyone’s cat chew!

The rescue let you adopt cats with medically complex needs that you weren’t aware of. With two young children, you just aren’t the right home and can’t give them what they need. Someone else could (half those on this thread apparently).

Is the kitten actually incontinent - not in control of its bodily functions, medically unwell, pooing without realising - or actively choosing not to use the litter tray?

Our previous cat mainly toileted outside, but would occasionally have a cheeky wee or poo in the bath if she couldn’t go out (eg if we were on holiday and had someone coming in twice a day to see to her). It wasn’t a medical issue and she was fully continent. She was just a little madam who knew absolutely fine to use the litter tray overnight when she was shut in the kitchen for bed, and chose not to during the day! Fortunately she only ever did it in the bath which was easy to clean.

I’ve always had cats and never had kittens that behaved like that. Generally cats are super clean, current cat here is 2 and had one wee accident the night after she was spayed when she was still high as a kite on the drugs and thought her cat hammock was her litter tray 😂 She’s munched a few plants (cat safe) and the corner of a book once but that’s all. I’ve had really demanding cats in the past but as kittens they were usually fairly easy.

It sounds like you’ve been really unlucky that they both have such bad dental issues and the incontinence too :( tbh I probably would have returned them to the rescue much sooner, an adult only home may be better for them.

I think I can only reiterate what others have said here…. It doesn’t sound like the kittens health is normal, but it’s possible they’ve come from a really traumatised environment. Have you tried getting them something like some cat anxiety relief, or asked the vet about it ? - They also sound like they are probably understimulated… have they got scratching pads? Catnip toys?. Kittens like puppies like babies need a lot of care, sometimes full on care. A bored animal is often a destructive one…..It might be worth examining the options before you want to return them as I think that is an absolute last resort for the poor little blighters

In answer to your question I’ve had three kittens with young children and the honest answer is I have never had the issues that you discuss. They’ve always been 90%/95% there with their litter training, have never chewed anything that I know of, and haven’t eaten Lego. We’ve always given them the rub of the house, started with litter trays in every room and reduced over a period of time. I don’t know what to suggest about the chewing. Is it worth getting an animal behaviourist involved?

I would insist on the kitten being tested for FIP, and others.
my cat carries dormant FCoV apparently, as do a huge majority of rescue cats (most folks never find out!) , we just need to hope it doesn’t turn into FIP.

Listen it's been done!! Regularly! She has had her anal glands squeezed too. I've consulted the vet more than once (she is fully insured and also indoors) and they have concluded that she just likes to scoot like a dog! She's so feckin' deliberate and brazen about it. She will hop in the litter tray, do a pee, and come out and immediately try to dry her bum on the carpet! Staring you in the eye while she does it!! She also scoots when she has poo stuck to her bum, hence the skidmarks! She once was washing her bum and got a piece of poo in her mouth and she spat it out across the floor! She is a total princess!

It's more normal that you might imagine! Our previous late rescue boy used to scoot on the slate tiles in the kitchen if he had a poo stuck on his bum!

Some cats need to be out, not all of them. We adopted three adults over the last 1/3 years. One was a stray in a city centre, one was neglected in a housing estate and the third had indoor/outdoor access. We have a chip-operated cat flap from our last cat.

Not one of them has ever looked to go outside. The first one literally runs away when she sees a door open or you put your key in the door. The other two probably would go out if they got the opportunity but they haven't looked to go.

They are too young to be expected to organise their lives in order to accommodate the kittens. And I speak as someone who has never, ever given up on a cat.

I'm sure this is good advice but I didn't know this when I had three cats in the early 1990s. They shared a single litter tray with no issues. One of them would have gone outside the tray if it was really messy but otherwise they were all fine! Two of them were sisters and the other was a stray we adopted and the sisters tolerated him!

I would say the same in most situations but the health issues these kittens have makes the situation untenable.

Even with 'normal' kittens, it's a huge undertaking especially with young children.

I grew up with lots of cats and kittens but we lived rurally. The first cats I had after we got married and bought our first house (pre-children) wrecked the place! I absolutely adored them and they were my babies while we struggled to have human babies, but omg they were destructive! That was over 34 years ago and I have never had kittens since, always adult cats!

Honestly, hand them back - you have tried, and you would find it so much easier with an older more settled cat!

I think it’s still very early days, even if it feels relentless, like 5 weeks post natal with twins!

Issues with lack or stimulation and perhaps stress. You seem like you are struggling arm but confinement one room and just15m x 2 daily with both of them seems minimal.

Your DH and DC also really need to work with not against you.

Your DH doesn’t seem very proactive or supportive currently and needs to buck himself up. Tell him to stop criticising you, he’s adding to the stress, you are trying to find ways settle the kittens, meanwhile he’s not pulling his weight or taking any responsibility. Presumably this was a shared decision?

Maybe repetition and consequences like toys removed if DC don’t pick up after themselves. Again, DH should be reinforcing this too, not all
on you.

The medical issues obviously need further specialist input or even a 2nd opinion. Dry or special diet may help. The place you adopted from may be able to offer further background on the kittens and more detailed guidance to support you in settling them, I’m sure they would want this to succeed as much as you do.

I was thinking FIP last night when I read the thread but I'm not sure the symptoms fit?

I do think there's a serious underlying condition here and it's up to the rescue's vets to identify it.

They are 7 and 9! Bloody hell it's their home too?!

Yes and they are not too young to cooperate in their family and learn to pick up their own toys at home. Even toddlers can potentially learn to put their toys back in a basket for example. The DC will be expected to put things away at school and have jobs in the classroom as well. The oldest will be at secondary in 2 years! OP has pointed out her DC will be really sad if the kittens go. They haven’t had enough time to settle having only been there for a month.

Nonsense, they are young children who should be able to relax in their own home. I say that as a mother and a massive cat lover.

They can get another cat. My children barely remember the cats we had when they were 7 and 9!

It's not a matter of settling at all! These kittens are severely unwell! They aren't 'normal' kittens!

You had bad luck there. You need to take the kittens back.
You have been stoic and heroic. You have gone the extra mile for those kittens but your husband is right.

Swap them for one or two cats a year old that have no health issues.
That is the sensible mix with your children. Your children are at a great age for looking after normal cats.

Have kitty litter tray in a large cage in your laundry so that at night you can settle cat in safely away from bird life.
Encourage cat to stay in your yard or inside during the day to prevent accidental road injuries or snail bait poisoning.
Look into getting a large outdoor enclosure accessed by one of your windows. You can buy kits and they are easy to put together.

I remember being 6/7 when we got a kitten from a nearby farm. I loved that kitten! Mitzi was wild and scratched and bit both my parents. I crawled on the floor and encouraged her to trust me in spite of my young age, and she did in the end. I remember reading her stories. When she was old enough, we let her out. Spaying wasn't a thing in the 1970s but she never was in heat anyway. She used to love to lie out in the sun. She had a favourite spot in the garden and one day I approached her and realised she was dead.

She was probably inbred or she had some underlying health condition. Nobody back then would have either known or cared. This is probably contradicting my earlier post that my kids wouldn't really remember a cat at their ages and they don't, but I remember my cat all the same!

Ok probably we should just agree to disagree as it doesn’t help OP and we apparently have very different views. ‘Relaxing at home’ to me doesn’t equate to ‘leave your stuff everywhere and your DM will run around (frazzled) picking up after you’.

I don’t see 7 and 9 as young at all when it comes to picking up your own toys. These are simple life skills and part of child development. Rather than a bad thing, it’s a positive and key part of parenting to encourage and support with developing social skills like co-operation as well as build their own independence. It’s not for school to do, IMO.