Cockapoo or Cavapoo

[KaleQueen]

We’re taking the plunge with our first dog this year. In the research phase and it’s down to either a Cockapoo or Cavapoo. We’re going for male I think. We’re an active family and have one of us working from home. Two kids over age of 10 both sensible. Small ish house and mid size garden. Lots of fields and green space nearby. Want a dog that won’t chew our house to bits and be fairly well behaved! Committed to fully training them obviously as I know that’s an essential factor for behaviour. I adore dogs and walk others’ regularly so I’m really excited we’re taking this first step to get our own but I’m worried about making the wrong choice. Any advice would be hugely appreciated

Would you not consider a rescue? I imagine there are many cross poodle breeds. So lany dogs need homes

Oh, and someone I know has a cavapoo. Little bastard needs 15 miles a day at a run. Hardly a couch potato.

Must be having a sprinkle of Colombian marching powder on his Pedigree Chum. And I hate to imagine the state of his joints in a few years' time.
I am beginning to think Peta must be behind The Doghouse on MN. The more time I spend on here, the more I am convinced that human beings have no business owning dogs or any other sentient beings.

We have 2 cockerpoos aged 4 and 12, but bought them both when they were 11 months old. I don’t know if we’ve just been lucky but neither dog has ever needed veterinary care or had any heath needs other than sore ears.

They are like chalk and cheese in personalities. One is beautifully behaved, confident and easy to train, and the other is loopy and clingy and anxious. Both have a mutual hatred of anyone in a hi-vis. Their coats are different too, one is soft and wavy while the other is course and curly.

I would happily choose a cockerpoo again in the future as despite their clinginess, barking, endless energy and need for attention, they are also loving, daft, intelligent and loyal.

The poo mix dogs often come with high anxiety and can be prone to illness. They are not a good mix and the original breeder regrets doing it.
this is from learnt from experience

@redboxer321 cavapoos are mixed with poodle with are reasonably high energy. Fifteen miles is over two runs.

But that was entirely my point - just because that PP claims she only knows lazy cavapoos it isn’t the case they are all - with mongrels you have no idea what you’re getting. But then the same PP also claimed poodles aren’t playful, so I probably shouldn’t have bothered replying…

The dog is 11. Joints are fine - although she’s a good owner and didn’t properly run the dog until it was 3.

I’d be more concerned, personally, about people spreading disinformation about how stable all their cockerpoos are than someone pointing out the flaws or logic in saying all mongrels of a certain mix are ‘lazy.’ Saying all cavapoos are lazy is like saying all Goldendoodles are happy, healthy, dogs. It’s just fundamentally wrong

This is a puppy farmer in all but name. All the pedigree dogs I have had have come from a domestic setting. The bitch was the family dog, the sire someone they vetted and/or knew really well so they were sure of the temperament. They always kept one of the litter and the bitches were only bred once or twice. It was carefully organised as they wanted to produce beautiful healthy dogs with a lovely temperament that would be a welcome addition to their own family and home. The dogs were ‘raised’ in the family home, socialised with family/children and other pets, not an outbuilding. Or separated enclosure. This really important.

They were very thorough in their vetting of me/my family too - did a home visit to check our home/garden, met existing dog. The existing dog had to come and meet the litter and also the chosen puppy to ensure they were receptive. The children were met at her home too. Would not allow adoption with a child under 5. Kennel club registered etc and the contract terms followed KC terma (eg, if it did not work out the puppy had to be returned to her, not rehomed or sold on elsewhere).

I’d avoid anyone who breeds dogs as a business. Sorry.

I would 100% look into medium sized poodles in your position. Absolutely no need to pix in a breed that you don't actually want. I think a mini poodle will be too small for you, but medium is about the size of a cockerpoo.

This is a puppy farmer in all but name
No one actually calls themselves a puppy farmer @AnonyMumAuDHD 😃

I agree that many breeds have been absolutely destroyed by kc standards of breeding.

People, dog people mostly are snobbish about these mixes because the vast majority of people breeding them are only doing it make a quick bit of cash and don't do the health testing.
This means the resulting puppies have problems and owners are paying out a fortune and the dog may have a shorter life with more pain for no reason other than making some cash.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with crosses or mix breeds if both parents were health tested, they were both well loved pets and not bred too young or old however most of the time that's just not the case.

The op wants a non shedding dog due to asthma in the family and with a cross you can't guarantee that they will get that gene.
I have asthma and while I can tolerate some dogs others give me an attack almost immediately and it would be awful for them to get a pup and it trigger the asthma and have to re-home them a few months down the line.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks
How do you know about the dog's joints? Like really know, not just that you don't notice any limping or bunny hopping etc. To be fair he may cope with running 15 miles a day but at 11 years old I think it is likely there are better ways to meet his needs personally. I thought it was important to point that out, especially because your words carry a lot of weight on this forum. I mean, someone posted the other day that it is not possible to over walk a dog. I don't think my post took anything away from your point about mongrels.

We have a 6 year old cockapoo who we adore but he’s an absolutely jerk 😆

I thought I did lots of research at the time (read lots of books, visited lots of breeders, spoke to multiple people with cockapoos) but I realise now I was very naive. I also have asthma and am prone to allergies - ours has perfect low shedding fur but in the first month I found myself reacting to his saliva on my skin. It made me itchy, rashy and a bit breathless but I think I became acclimatised and all the reactions stopped after a bit.

He’s bred from a prize winning miniature show poodle dad and a working cocker mum, and while he looks like your perfect cockapoo, his personality is all working cocker without the discipline! He’s a busy, skittish, resource guarding loon, despite thousands of pounds of puppy classes, behaviourists and even gun dog classes. He’s the most loving thing with us but hates strangers and can’t be left alone with a tea towel or child’s toy without taking it out in the garden and burying it.m (literally, we have to clear a room before he enters it!)

We bought from someone that I think probably falls between the two camps described here - no fancy website, rigorous health tests, vetting of owners and a clear passionate love of dogs. We met both mother and father before the mating had even taken place and were sent regular footage from the moment of birth through to choosing of puppies and mother together. However, while the dads were her pride and joy, she had multiple bitches (all well loved) and was clearly running a business built around her passion.

Knowing what I know now, I should have paid more attention to the mother’s behaviour when we met her. She was climbing all over the furniture and sniffing around at everything! I did no research on working dog traits at all, and cockapoos are so variable.

Oh, and we also spend £50 every 7 weeks on grooming, which is more than DH and I spend on our hair put together!!

I’m not sure if any of this is helpful, but I think the viewpoints about cockapoos on the internet can be quite binary so wanted to give you the middle ground.

When our beloved idiot dies, I don’t think we’ll get another cockapoo. I probably would consider a poodle.

Have you looked at Lagottos or either other water dog (Portuguese, Spanish)?

They look like teddies, they aren't common and the breeders are trying to sensibly bring back a rare breed so loads of health checks and sensible breeding. They don't shed, the coat is surprisingly lovely, softer than the poo crosses even though it looks the same, not too big. Can be expensive though as a result, but I think the poo crosses are too.

Ours is high energy and intelligent and needs stimulation but we match this. I went to a meeting and there were elderly couples with cuddly, calm ones, you could almost pair owner to dog. They seem to be excellent at reading the room and adjusting, they want to fit in. They do seem quite vocal but more in a way that they think they are talking, than endless barking.

I think Australian miniature labradoodles are the poo crosses most established as their own breed and with the health checks and consistency, so they might be worth a look as well.

Good luck

PWDs are lovely but VERY high energy and need a job in a lot of cases. Would be great for an active home but not ‘just a pet’
Agility/scent work etc would need adding to keep many sane

Kindly you’ve no idea what my family is ready for. And I’ve spoken at length to them about why it will take so long and why we must make sure we’re choosing the right dog. This is a decision that’s about five years in the making.

Yep I’m ‘aunty’ to a cockapoo and I love the bones of him but he’s an absolute handful. And my good friend’s Cavapoo is as you describe - stops dead if it can’t be bothered to walk any further and I’m not even talking long walks 😬

I was looking at these and ended up with a miniature Australian labradoodle, he is wonderful, there are some dodgy breeders out there but look here fora breeder a and read about the breed australianlabradoodle.pedigreedatabaseonline.com

I do think we are sometimes misunderstood on here when we disparage the idea of poodle crosses. Most of us are not particularly opposed to the concept in general.
More that you cannot guarantee outcomes such as shedding which is a common misconception and more especially, the near impossibility of finding a ‘good’ breeder or a health tested dog.
It has to be said, there are huge numbers of shit breeders and puppy farms for pedigrees too but at least with due diligence you have a fighting chance.
i know many lovely poodle crosses. I also know many with physical and behavioural difficulties that are fundamentally genetic due to poor breeding or have evolved due to poor management and owner selection from breeders who couldn’t care less about the dog, just the money
Im in the camp where I know it’s Russian roulette as to what you’d end up with and would therefore never recommend a poodle cross. Even though some are genuinely nice dogs. If yours is lovely, it’s luck not good breeding

Please go to a rehoming centre and see what they recommend for your family and lifestyle. Doodles are not the easy perfect first pet the breeders sell them as.

Fundamentally the thing that all of these dogs have in common is that they are sold as suitable for families and first time dog owners, which as a demographic tend to behave in a similar way with their dogs, and follow a similar training funnel that results in most of the issues that we see as professional behaviour specialists. In essence, the poodle cross represents “all of the things that go wrong if you follow the standardised status quo training process”.

https://www.thedogsway.co.uk/journal/case-profile-cockapoo

Just to say thanks for every single bit of advice I’m reading carefully and taking it all in. You’re all clearly knowledgeable and experienced dog people and I’m glad I posted.

I think poodles are so underrated-you don't have to give them a poncy poodle cut-they can have a less formal one.

What about a miniature schnauzer?

Kindly, of course Im just going on what you posted. Im sorry you dont like what I said but it’s what Im getting from your comments.

First, you have a great setup for a dog. Sensible older kids, wfh and plenty of green space nearby all sound good. Don't underestimate how much time a puppy will need in the first 6 months, and just prepare yourself for the chaos. It does get better. :)

I would never get a F1 cross, unless it were a rescue. But if you are buying a dog from a breeder, you don't want the unpredictability that comes with a F1 cross. Owners often think that they are getting the best of both worlds, but it's a genetic lottery. They can end up with a mixed coat that sheds and mats simultaneously, which is a nightmare.

I second everyone telling you to look at a Havanese or a Mini Poodle instead. Both have predictable, low-shedding coats, so are easy to groom. Many people lean toward Cockapoos or Cavapoos because they love the fluffy "teddy bear" look and assume purebred poodles only come in show-style haircuts, but that's not the case. If your kids just love the look of doodles, a miniature poodle can look exactly like that if groomed well, and they are such great dogs. A poodle will absorb commands like a sponge. Destructive chewing usually just comes from boredom, but a poodle's brain is easily satisfied with basic training games (just make them work for their food, it's very low effort). They love long walks, fetching, and hiking, but they have a great off-switch to chill at home while you work (if you teach them to, of course).

And Havanese are really the hidden gems of companion dogs. They naturally want to sit by your feet or look out the window while you work. They are famous for being velcro dogs that thrive when a human is around, so you will have to work to teach yours to stay alone, but they are clever little dogs and learn quickly. They are sturdy for their size, love playing with kids, and can walk for miles.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I've had a go at a draft too. PM when you're ready.

@redboxer321 Fair enough! I don't think my comments are taken anymore seriously than most people on Doghouse, but perhaps I am wrong.

Admittedly, her dog is a very good example of the 'breed' and has never had any issues - but I do imagine it is the extreme (both in terms of energy and also health). Although that again reinforces the point about what knowing what you're getting...

@EdithStourton Great minds! I'll do it once I'm back from the pits of hell tonight (otherwise known as the office). 😁

That breeder’s website is so full of holes yet it clearly wowed the OP. I agree, there is actually no information that indicates any care for improving the next generation of dogs. Nothing about the parents -does she own the males too? Is she mating two cockerpoos (cavapoos, maltipoos, delete as appropriate), is she mating a pure bred cocker with a pure bred poodle? Which breed is her bitch? If she actually cared or was knowledgeable and experienced in the bloodlines of either breed, why is she diluting it by haphazardly breeding “expensive” crosses? It just might be that people buying that sort of puppy doesn’t have a clue, won’t ask awkward questions, and will pay over the odds for the emphasis she has put on “fluffy”, “adorable”, and”personality”, which is entirely subjective anyway and not all canine personalities are a good fit for many human, adult and child personalities. How old are her breeding dogs? How often does she have a litter from each bitch? What is the breeding coefficient of the dogs she has chosen to breed from? I’d put money on her neither knowing nor caring.