Cockapoo or Cavapoo

[KaleQueen]

We’re taking the plunge with our first dog this year. In the research phase and it’s down to either a Cockapoo or Cavapoo. We’re going for male I think. We’re an active family and have one of us working from home. Two kids over age of 10 both sensible. Small ish house and mid size garden. Lots of fields and green space nearby. Want a dog that won’t chew our house to bits and be fairly well behaved! Committed to fully training them obviously as I know that’s an essential factor for behaviour. I adore dogs and walk others’ regularly so I’m really excited we’re taking this first step to get our own but I’m worried about making the wrong choice. Any advice would be hugely appreciated

😂😂😂

Finally something to laugh about on this thread.

@EdithStourton I'd like to know how you get the impression OP has admitted she was wrong about the puppy farmer. Because I have reread every post, and to me it reads that she thinks Donna is probably lovely, with the best of intentions.

And you can call me supercilious all you like. My post was born out of the frustration of 13 pages of comments explaining about ethical breeding, for it to be largely ignored.

And I stand by it. If the OP was fooled by Donna's Doodles website and FB page, (have you looked at them?) then she needs help to find an ethical breeder.

I've been puzzled by the row of three emojis above but I can only surmise that there are at least two people on this thread who think that I didn't realise that Edith was talking about me (along with another) when she made her snide remarks. Now that really is rude.

@redboxer321 Well I am one of the posters and I didn't know you were the other one. I didn't appreciate your comment saying I needed to wear a shock collar, so it was amusing when it appeared to backfire on you.

Apologies if your comment was not meant as it reads. I wasn't intending to be rude. It's sometimes hard to interpret the nuance of the written word when you don't know the poster. For all I know, you are a fan of shock collars, along with Edith.

Oh Lord, @redboxer321
I wasn't being snide. I was pointing out some unpleasant and in my view unnecessary comments. I deliberately didn't tag or name the people I quoted so that they could keep their heads down if they wanted to. They didn't want to.

@SpanielsGalore, you asked 'I'd like to know how you get the impression OP has admitted she was wrong about the puppy farmer.'
OP has literally said:
'But I am curious about people like Donna who I wonder maybe do they think they’re actually a good breeder but don’t realise they’re not? Maybe I try to see the good in people too much.'
and
'I’m just interested in how people think, and I’m curious whether some people who breed dogs that way genuinely think they’re lovely and doing a lovely thing.'
She hasn't slammed into 'Donna', but her view of her has clearly shifted and she's said so.

You've just recognised that tone and nuance is tricky on the internet - and yes, you were very patient over quite a few comments, but you made a very sharp comment that probably wasn't terribly helpful. And yes, I wouldn't be taken in by 'Donna's' website - but it's worth bearing in mind that a lot of people on this board were totally taken in by Absolute Dogs and Lauren Langman. Before she fell from grace, there were numerous recommendations here to sign up to their programmes. I never liked their manic adverts (and didn't take to either of them), but it didn't cross my mind that she might be turning out puppies by dozen in less-than-great conditions. And I know a bit about puppy farms, and consider myself to be a pretty well-informed dog-owner.

And 'fan of shock collars'... All I have ever done is argue that e-collars, well-used, have a place. I've also stated, on a loop, that I lay down behaviours with positive reinforcement, and continue to use +R throughout my dogs' lives.

I know I'm not exactly popular on this board. I don't train my dogs force-free, I use e-collars on two dogs with very high prey drive - basically, I'm the devil. And since I'm not popular, I have nothing to lose by pointing out where I think people (who I would expect are lovely in real life, kind, genuine and helpful) are being downright punishing and unkind to new posters.

If we can be patient with our dogs, we can be patient with people. That's all I'm trying to say.

@EdithStourton In my world, there isn't room for such musings. Puppy farmers don't think they are good breeders. They don't care about the dogs. All they care about is their bank balance.

I didn't know much about LL before it all blew up. Like you, I just found their adverts annoying. Along with their sexier than a squirrel slogan.

I'll leave the e-collar debate, as it's an area we will never agree on. Best to agree to disagree on that one.

I still stand by my comment. I could have phrased it more politely, but I felt like I (and other posters) was banging my head up a brick wall by that point. In future, that needs to be my cue to walk away.

We've had a misunderstanding @SpanielsGalore
I'm sorry it wasn't clear. I don't think you need to wear a shock collar and nor do I think any dog needs to.

In future, that needs to be my cue to walk away.
This is good advice for me too 😀

See I didn’t take it as lighthearted.

o/p said she had decided on a male puppy because her husband didn’t want to be the only male in a houseful of women, teen girl years, blah blah.

decided on a male for those reasons.

if she’d have said her oh would likea boy dog, inset joke here, fine. But to choose a puppy based on her husbands wish to have another penis in the house rather than the dogs suitability to their household is not a joke imo.

@Yetanotherone12 I googled the address as well (based off the Gov UK filings on the separate business breeding Frenchies she has)...not ideal.

Of course you can 100% breed a dog in a small terrace (I did my first litter of 10 puppies in a 2 bed semi in Streatham that when I moved in had the toilet in the back garden in an out-house) for anyone else reading this.

But Donna has at least 6 different breeds of dogs, according to her various businesses and in that sort of environment...that's a problem.

@Sisublondie also worth noting that male dogs are disproportionately represented in rescues compared to females (usually relinquished between 12 - 24 months due to behavioural issues). So it's one of those things people will always spark on and be concerned by when said in that sort of manner. 😕

Ah yes, the testosterone phase! People like the OP would be well served by reading the adolescent threads on here…..where all hearing and reasonable behaviour can often depart, leaving a raft of (usually temporary if handled right) behaviour issues, frustration and bother with the previously angelic puppy. Much, MUCH worse in boys usually although girls can certainly push boundaries at this age too
I always warn puppy owners of this phenomenon when I first meet them but I suspect many don’t believe me. Until a few months later anyway!

Oh no! Will the dog not be a proper lads lad? My DH has already got its name down on the wait list for a football season ticket. And a set of little tools to help him around the house with DIY. Damn it! How ‘incredibly naive’ of me.

It’s been very unpleasant reading the last few updates. The way I’ve been spoken about. Just awful. I wasn’t going to come back and comment but I’ve decided I will as I now seem to be being mocked for deciding we might want a male dog based on no other real reason that dogs are either male or female (as far as I’m aware unless there are non binary ones out there that I’m ‘incredibly naively’ unaware of…) so ..you know…you’re ALLOWED to decide which you think you might prefer based on your own experiences of dogs. And we’d prefer a male. If that’s okay with you @Yetanotherone12

@KaleQueen
I’ll happily admit you’ve been subjected to flack. Hell I’ve got frustrated with some of your comments and bitten where I probably shouldn’t too
But you’ve had - and continue to get - a huge amount of very sensible advice from people who genuinely know what they’re talking about
If not for us, you’d be buying a potentially high shedding dog from a puppy farmer in blissful ignorance!

For reference though, choosing a puppy based on individual temperament and the average pros/cons of the different genders (and yes, they ARE very different) is more sensible than a prefixed idea in most cases

Just incase you’re interested in my levels of intelligence l’m post graduate educated.

@KaleQueen I think you're insinuation that only those with a degree or post-graduate are intelligent was far worse than any of the (very fair and reasonable) comments people have made on this thread. Perhaps you didn't mean it the way it was taken by me - I tend to find comments that correlate intelligence with how well educated someone is deeply offensive.

But then equally, the argument can be made about the way you have reacted to a great many comments on this thread - almost all of which have been said in good-faith to try and educate you before you make a catastrophic mistake and become an animal cruelty enabler - has been taken by you in a similar light to the way I took your, perhaps clumsy, comment.

People take things personally, after all.

No one is mocking you. No one is being nasty. All anyone has done is explain, time and time again, is how naive and (potentially) dangerous some of your assumptions about people like Donna and dog ownership are - from the risks around mongrel breeding and it's correlation to whether a dog is hypoallergenic, to how little puppy farmers care about their dog.

But if you come into the Doghouse and make comments such as this:

Even (the now dreaded) ‘Donna the doodle peddler’ I think has good intentions

then you are, very rightly, going to get told how things are. No one likes to hear about animal abuse, and no one likes to hear people in any way, shape, or form justify it.

I have a cockerpoo. We met both her parents. She was a bit of a knob when she was younger, but is a dream now-like any dog, she just needed training. Likes walks and runs with DH as well and will always want another, but is also happy to sleep. Doesn’t shed at all. Doesn’t resource guard-apart from her cuddles baby, which our other dog isn’t allowed near-though humans can. Doesn’t care about food-will only eat if you stay with her. So that’s her main issue, is that she is a real Velcro dog and i can’t move without her following me, which also includes her staring at me on the toilet! Not keen on other dogs-they scare her, but loves people and would happily go off with anyone. Can take her anywhere.

FML. I’ve made no assumptions!!!! I’m literally now looking at miniature poodles! I’ve got a list of what I need to look for and check! I’ve admitted I was taken in by Donna’s Doodles! I am NOT defending puppy farmers! I was saying ‘does she do this knowing it’s not okay or does she operate under her own misguided belief that she’s doing a good thing?’
Then finally I get slated for saying we’d prefer a male dog.
Bloody hell man.
Anyway, I’m out of here now. Thanks for all the lovely dog pics and positive advice I’ve had along the way ❤️

Hmmm a breeder who breeds different types of popular crosses. Sounds like a puppy farm, no matter how ‘nice’ she seems if she’s breeding many litters of dog types that are ‘in’ at the moment I’d stay well clear.

@KaleQueen
You clearly don’t know how puppy farms operate. Do you know what happens to the bitch once she stops proving useful? Donna and her ilk will either dump them with a rescue - having never been subjected to anything other than a cage, these dogs are terrified and in poor health.
Those are the lucky ones - the rest are killed. Larger ‘enterprises’ even have an on site incinerator
The house you see the puppy in is often rented or a stooge house too. The ‘mum’ may not actually be related to the puppies
Surely as such a well educated person, you can see how any form of musings on whether Donna is a good person would rankle with those of us who know better? Donna may or may not be at the worst end of the scale, who knows? But it is indefensible to many of us to appear to defend her. And whether that was your intention or not, it’s certainly how the vast majority of us read your posts

I see you’re still going at me despite the fact I’ve explained what I meant. What’s your aim here exactly as you’ve made the same point several times now directly @‘ng me insinuating i’m a puppy farm supporter and don’t care about animal welfare. Neither of which are remotely true.
Maybe the public need more education as despite the fact I’m ‘educated’ (wasn’t trying to be superior about that just pointing out I’m not dim) I was taken in by it initially. The dog my sister has - a fantastic cockapoo - in hindsight now I’m aware of these things, was probably from a puppy farm. She literally googled ‘cockapoo puppies’ near her. That’s the extent of the research she did. Then went to visit pups and chose her dog. My friend did the same. Both would be horrified to think they were complicit in mistreatment of animals by doing so. But they’re both just normal busy, average adults with no specialist knowledge of dogs who took people at face value.
I am tired of the vitriol aimed at me today. It’s completely uncalled for. Someone even told me ‘I shouldn’t get a dog’ as in I’m not fit to own a dog. Have you heard yourselves? It’s awful. Get a grip. I came on here for advice which is a damn sight more than many bother to do.

And to attempt to end this positively before I go here’s a picture of my gorgeous Cockerpoo ‘nephew’ who is 5 and mad as a box of frogs and absolutely adored for it anyway. This is us on one of our many long and sniffy walks. He has been forgiven for chewing the family passports a week before leaving for holiday, resulting in it being cancelled. He has been forgiven for shredding several pairs of expensive UGG slippers, and many other puppy misdemeanours as he brings absolute light into our lives. He is also wonderfully healthy, beautifully groomed and very expensively fed. He’s never been to dog boarding once as he has a wider family who all step in to have him if my sister’s family go away. He is a nightmare resource guarder and we had a particularly hairy incident at Christmas when he managed to swipe a boxed Camembert and was NOT giving it up as cheese is his absolute favourite. However we knew he’d probably also attempt to eat the box so we had a battle…but we know how to handle the little monkey so all ended well.
Okay thats me done.

What are the differences between genders? I'm asking seriously & genuinely curious, I've only ever had male dogs because that's what I know, but my grandpa always told me that the "girls are calmer, boys are more affectionate" myth is just that: a nice story people tell themselves.

It probably differs with individual dogs but my Border Terriers have been the complete opposite. Calm and friendly, but not over affectionate male, mental and wants always to be sitting on your lap ( head 😁) female.