Recall training for an adult dog - horrible park incident

[Quickdraw23]

Hi there,

has anyone any advice for revising recall training for a 5 year old dog.

my dog is normally very reliable with recall but I’ve had an incident in the park today that has really shaken me.

i was walking my spaniel around the same playing fields that we go on most days with DS (11 months) in the pram. My dog came back every time I called her until we reached the last bit of the walk when we met a man with two dogs, one on the lead one off the lead.

My dog bounded towards them to sniff and I called her because I saw his dog was on the lead, but she didn’t come which is really out of character, she struck a playful stance in front of the dog on the lead. He began swearing at me, calling me a fucking idiot and telling me to get her back on the lead.

I was calling her, but she thought it was a game and was dancing around trying to entice his dogs to play. He kept swearing at me, then began walking his dog towards her intentionally and encouraging it to attack, so she thought even more it was a game. I shouted at him to stop it and that he was winding her up and to walk away and he kept screaming that I’m a fucking idiot and shouldn’t have my dog off the lead. I was calling her all the time but she was so excited. He was then walking towards her trying to kick her and I was shouting at him to stop it and he kept swearing at me.

I was trying to get my dog back on the lead and keep checking back on DS who was parked in the pram about 6m away from where this is was happening. It was horrendous. the whole thing probably lasted about two minutes and he was verbally abusing me throughout. I kept saying to him “I’m trying to get her back on” and she kept dancing around because she thought it was all a game. He just kept swearing at me calling me a fucking idiot.

I told him to go away and that I would not be talking to him in front of my baby. It’s the only thing I could think to say. I was scared. A woman nearby actually told him he needed to walk his dogs away and he just kept moving towards my dog and shouting and swearing at me.

Ive walked my dog there for over three years and never had anything like this happen before. We did lots of recall training. I know she should have come back when I called her, and if a dog on a lead snapped or bit her because she hadn’t come away I would blame my dog not the dog on the lead, but it’s so out of character for her not to come back.

I’m ordering a retractable lead right now, I don’t feel safe walking her off the lead again, but does anyone have any advice on recall drills or training I can do? Is it just back to basics?

Please be gentle with me, I know my dog was in the wrong for not coming back, but I’m so upset. I’m scared of bumping into him on that park again even if she is on the lead 😞

I'm sorry this distressing situation happened to you but I think you just need to keep your dog on the lead at all times except in your own garden

I agree. I use a very long training lead which is good when I can let her go a bit further, never off lead as reactive sometimes….

Me too. My dog’s too easily distracted despite having a good recall most of the time.

Oh OP 😅

Dont beat yourself up. Honestly. You thought your dog was solid and in reality she was until she wasnt. This is a lot of dogs. Recall reliably for years...and then one day pffft.

Just go back to long line and reinforcing exactly in the same way that you trained her.

This is why I would never declare my dog or any dog to have 100% recall. They're animals with free will. I could only declare perfect recall if the the stats were: recalled every single time with a 100% success rate from the day I declared her trained on [dd/mm/yy] until the day of death [dd/mm/yy] . There might only be a handful of dogs in the world who fit that very slim bill!

Go back to basics until she proves herself trustworthy again.

I won’t be letting her off the lead again unless in a secure place with no other animals.

as I said I am ordering a retractable lead.

Oh, don't beat yourself up. It happens. Just keep her on a lead the next few walks and reinforce your training
Your dog will soon learn she doesn't get to play about off lead if she doesn't listen.

My girl is far too playful so she doesn't get off lead in parks or public walks but almost every dog bounds up to her and tries to play making me twirl in circles with the lead. I can't imagine getting as angry as that man. No need at all.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. All dogs are capable of losing their recall skills in some situations, and I expect that the 'playfulness' of your dog was in part a reaction to the huge amount of tension that this man was creating. It is bound to have made your dog anxious, if only as a response to your own anxiety.

I think you need to separate two things. Yes, of course you need to work on improving recall (who doesn't!). But this is a separate issue from the fact that you had the misfortune to encounter a really unpleasant man.

There is nothing you can do about that, But believe me, in time the anxiety and distress that he generated will subside and you will be able to feel better about the memory of the distress he caused. It feels unbearable now, but tomorrow it will feel a bit better, and the day after tomorrow it will begin to feel ok.

I’d order a long line, not retractable. It can be difficult and sometimes dangerous to try and get your dog back to you on a retractable, and if they’re used to being off lead then they can injure themselves if they run to the end of the retractable line at pace.

I only walk my (always on lead) dog on a retractable when I know she’s going to be walking on a path next to me at all times, but she’s not a runner so she is very rarely at the end of the retractable.

Sounds like a nasty man. Firstly, you were obviously trying to control your dog, which immediately puts you in a better place than many owners. Secondly, he clearly wasn't genuinely concerned for his own safety or his dog's or he'd have walked away. Thirdly, you had a baby with you!

In this situation, it’s not about you being a woman with a baby and a shouty man. It’s about a person with their dog on a lead being really fucked off with a person with an off lead dog, who couldn’t control them. I understand you’re upset but focusing on the apparent male/female power imbalance or blaming the person with their dog under control is not helping you see it for what it was. Mortifying but no harm, and you get another chance

Get an e-collar.

Transformational, they have a vibrate setting, which breaks the dogs focus and then responds to the recall.

You have to train them with it first, plenty of YT on how to do this.

Our friends had a pointer, recal fantastic and until it wasn't, they had an incident with chickens..... the collar has made this history, he now responds to his name first time, every time, regardless of the distraction and is far happier for it.

Spaniels love be to charge about and have something to do, the e-collar allows this.
Even the electric setting is no more than a TENS machine, you re not electrocuting the dog.

Honestly. E-Collars. Sigh. If you have to resort to an e-collar to train your dog, you shouldn't have a dog.

They are widely regarded as cruel in the dog world - some breed clubs have very strict rules about them, including not allowing people who use them to be members.Do you know why dogs respond to it? Not because it breaks their focus, but because it scares them. Owners failure and inability to adequately train their dog should not result in the dog being treated in such a terrible way. I certainly wouldn't be impressed if anyone I knew used one (admittedly they wouldn't as my friends are competent and loving dog owners - not the sorts of pieces of work who have to scare a dog into doing what they want).

More broadly...quite surprised by how many people are telling OP to stick her dog on a lead. OP doesn't need an e-collar. Or even really to change her dog walking habits. This was clearly a freak incident, she's learned her dogs weakness and she can improve her training with the dog to address it - sticking her dog back on a lead forever more is not the solution. If we all stuck our dogs back on leads after once freak incident then no dogs would ever be off lead, and there are certain breeds it's just plain cruel to only ever walk on a lead and, quite frankly, this man did everything you SHOULDN'T do if you have a dog on the lead. He deliberately, and knowingly, escalated the situation.

@Quickdraw23 Don't bear yourself up. It happens to all of us. One of mine went through a stage of running up to other dogs and sucking their winkys (yes, you read that right).

Hire some secure fields, go out at different (and quieter) times, and test and re-test her recall. Make sure there's always a high value reward for good behaviour. Don't get complacent.

One freak incident in five years is not a good reason to leash your otherwise impeccably behaved dog - and that says a lot coming from me as I have a very low tolerance for crap dog ownership and poor recall.

Retractable leads are great. A spaniel would be easily reeled in. Long leads drag on the ground. We never got recall with our dog (Lhasa Apso) but I never had him off lead in a park. On my own land, yes. Just take the necessary steps to control him because a baby and a dog isn’t a great combination if the dog runs off.

Thanks this is really helpful advice.

But it's not a "freak accident". A freak accident is something really rare like, say, witnessing a car crash or something where any human or dog would be thrown.

This was just... op's dog encountering some dogs being walked in the park. A totally everyday occurance. Op's dog proved it couldn't be trusted in this everyday situation. So it should be kept on the lead from now on in this everyday situation

But if you were at all worried would you not keep your distance from the dog that was off lead? He was deliberately seeking confrontation by the sound of it.

Get a longline and go back to basics - don't use a retractable for the reasons already given, and don't go with e collars, there are far better ways of training them.

That man sounds like a fucking idiot, what a complete overreaction and no doubt one he would have controlled if you'd been a bloke who was bigger than him - that amount of anger will carry him off if he's not careful.

Try not to beat yourself up about it - dogs do occasionally let us down and most owners will either tell you not to worry and accept your apology, or have a short, hard word with you and move on with their day - he's a bully and a prick.

Just a word of warning, I've got an old cocker spaniel who is now deaf and so put him onto a retractable lead. He's pulled me off my feet 3 fecking times now, so I've gone to a long line instead.

Just go back to basics. Long line, high value treats when she recalls. Mine has embarrassed the heck of me on so many occasions I'm almost immune. Usually stealing other dogs tennis balls....

Thanks for your helpful advice and sympathic words.

Yes you’re totally right of course about the lead - im not thinking properly.

certainly will be keeping him on the standard lead if I’m out with my son again, and a long lead for training for the foreseeable.

lesson learnt

It happens. What do they say? Labradors enter the world half trained and Spaniels leave the world half trained.

I’m not focusing on it, it’s just what happened.

I’m sure if a woman had been doing what he was doing I would also have been very intimidated and not able to respond as effectively as I would have liked.

Please make sure the long line is always attached to a harness, not a collar, so that her neck doesn't get injured if she runs to the end of the lead.

Good luck with the training, I hope you don't cross paths with that man again!

I am very sorry this happened. How upsetting for you.

Re the retractable lead.
Watch out that you actually control the lead. So often people using them do not have them on the catch, the lead shoots out to its full length, and their dog is going all over the place even worse than if they were free because the dog is still running up to other dogs and the ‘retractable’ lead is also in the way of other dog walkers and walkers.

A retractable lead is a waste of time and, frankly, I dread those menaces coming towards us. All they do is confuse the dog.

Your dog does not have recall and the man said what I would have been thinking. If it was just "fucking idiot" then it sounds like someone stressed at yet another dog zooming up to his with a seemingly ineffectual owner. Yes, he behaved less than ideally but you were in the wrong.

I don't care how friendly someone's dog is, whether the zooming up is a "one off" or anything else. Just. Keep. Your. Dog. Under. Control.

I am sick to death of dogs like yours with the owner saying "doesn't usually do that" or "he's friendly." We keep our distance, have a "nervous" lead (although many are either illiterate or think they are the exception), and don't go to busy places. Yet the muppets multiply, especially in summer.

My priority is keeping my dog safe and stress free. She's made enormous progress which has taken years and it all started because of ill mannered and untrained dogs who wouldn't leave her alone. I wouldn't verbally abuse someone (although I'd think exactly what that man said) but would note the lack of recall of their dog is persistent.

You met someone utterly exasperated I suspect and not simply a bully.