Recall training for an adult dog - horrible park incident

[Quickdraw23]

Hi there,

has anyone any advice for revising recall training for a 5 year old dog.

my dog is normally very reliable with recall but I’ve had an incident in the park today that has really shaken me.

i was walking my spaniel around the same playing fields that we go on most days with DS (11 months) in the pram. My dog came back every time I called her until we reached the last bit of the walk when we met a man with two dogs, one on the lead one off the lead.

My dog bounded towards them to sniff and I called her because I saw his dog was on the lead, but she didn’t come which is really out of character, she struck a playful stance in front of the dog on the lead. He began swearing at me, calling me a fucking idiot and telling me to get her back on the lead.

I was calling her, but she thought it was a game and was dancing around trying to entice his dogs to play. He kept swearing at me, then began walking his dog towards her intentionally and encouraging it to attack, so she thought even more it was a game. I shouted at him to stop it and that he was winding her up and to walk away and he kept screaming that I’m a fucking idiot and shouldn’t have my dog off the lead. I was calling her all the time but she was so excited. He was then walking towards her trying to kick her and I was shouting at him to stop it and he kept swearing at me.

I was trying to get my dog back on the lead and keep checking back on DS who was parked in the pram about 6m away from where this is was happening. It was horrendous. the whole thing probably lasted about two minutes and he was verbally abusing me throughout. I kept saying to him “I’m trying to get her back on” and she kept dancing around because she thought it was all a game. He just kept swearing at me calling me a fucking idiot.

I told him to go away and that I would not be talking to him in front of my baby. It’s the only thing I could think to say. I was scared. A woman nearby actually told him he needed to walk his dogs away and he just kept moving towards my dog and shouting and swearing at me.

Ive walked my dog there for over three years and never had anything like this happen before. We did lots of recall training. I know she should have come back when I called her, and if a dog on a lead snapped or bit her because she hadn’t come away I would blame my dog not the dog on the lead, but it’s so out of character for her not to come back.

I’m ordering a retractable lead right now, I don’t feel safe walking her off the lead again, but does anyone have any advice on recall drills or training I can do? Is it just back to basics?

Please be gentle with me, I know my dog was in the wrong for not coming back, but I’m so upset. I’m scared of bumping into him on that park again even if she is on the lead 😞

No dogs are ever 100% and things happen. This guy had options like walking away and not swearing but unfortunately humans are not that reliably good sometimes. If only he could be taken back to basics with his socialisation and training.

He’s an awful horrid man. There’s no excuse for trying to encourage one dog to attack another and for screaming at a woman trying to get her dog back on lead. There’s no excuse.

I think this may be right. Two friends with spaniels independently had horrible shocks
when their dog unexpectedly ran out of the park while they called after them - after years of them never doing this sort of thing.

Please try not to let this get you down OP. You are a good dog owner, your dog is not vicious, no harm was done. and you’ll be able to work with it to help with recall.

That man made it worse.

He was an idiot making it far worse than it needed to be - he was intent on making it worse - a normal rational person would have stayed still and accounted that you need to keep eye on baby - calm is the key - he was just as responsible for razzing her up

I wouldn’t necessarily go back to lead and that’s it - especially those piano wire extension ones - they just tug their neck which isn’t relying on control

I would just only let her off when no others around keep checking - call her back every few minutes (high value reward) for weeks and weeks - it takes 3000 repetitions - just keep doing it and doing it - maybe introduce a whistle - good with a spaniel

Our rescue dog had very poor recall when we adopted her.

We would practice for hours with one of us calling her to us for a treat then the other one calling her to us for a treat on (tedious) repeat.
At first we did it in the garden with no distractions.
Then the park when it was quiet.
Then the park when it was full of people and dogs.
We made it 100% a game and every week or so would have a session of it to remind her of the treat in store when she came when called.

I think the recap every week worked for her because she'd not been trained as a pup and so knew nefarious ways and at first could be tempted to bugger off.
She was such a lovely well behaved dog and when she got older and was plodding about like the Queen Mum I used to sometimes remember her 'nutter' days with longing.

In my opinion which I know won't be popular, it would be a shame to keep a dog on lead forever for one misdemenour when a lot of further training might make her bomb proof with 100% recall.

There's absolutely no way he'd have abused a man like this. Bullshit he didn't use his sex to intimidate her.

absolute rubbish

the man made himself and dog a target and kept it going so he could shout at OP - it’s usually very inexperienced owners that behave like this - shouting and verbally abusing someone is not ok

Also OP doing the repetitions will build your bond - when you let the dog off they need to be following your instructions - training builds this

please don’t go to retractable - imv they just untrain dogs - do the recall at least 30 repetitions every day in that same park

Search 'Will Atherton Recall' on YouTube for a very effective training guide to boost what you've already done.

I can’t give anymore advice because my pup is only 10 months and his recall is nonexistent. However, Lidl have retractable leads at the moment for a good price, I use both- always a long line for roaming in safe areas and a retractable for when he can have a bit of freedom. I really rate the ancol long lines and they are strong and durable.

Also some advice if it happens again - don’t run towards the dog. Run away from the dog, make a high-pitched excitable noise and run the opposite direction. Nine times out of 10, they will book it after you. That’s actually one of the techniques in Pippa Mattinson’s book when teaching recall as it teaches your dog that basically you are unpredictable and they need to keep an eye on you at all times!

The man was obnoxious. So sorry you experienced this. My dog doesnt like being approached while he is on the lead, but I always walk away. My dog makes it very clear hes unhappy.
I do ask the owners to recall the dog. But dont get agitated about it. It makes everything worse, dogs stressed, you stressed etc.

I can help alleviate your angst as this has happened to me on regular occasions. I work with dogs, and I can tell you two things that are absolutely certain. Dogs gravitate towards the people you least want them to, and there will always be that one time when recall fails for some reason.

Try not to think of training as a thing that you do. Most owners think of it as being a finite activity when in reality it is a way of life. Dogs need to practice skills just the same as humans do. In turn this will help the relationship you have with your dog and she will be more likely to listen to you in the moment you need it.

Good luck.

ETA - at some point you have to try the dog out to see what it does off the lead.

Firstly, OP, dogs are dogs, and any sensible owner seeing you try to to control your dog would have either helped you to catch her, or taken his dog quickly away. Yes, it is maddening to have out of control dogs run up when your dog just doesn't need it for whatever reason, but losing your shit at someone who is at least trying to catch their dog is unnecessary and unhelpful. Losing your shit at someone standing at a distance and making zero effort is rather more justified.

So as others have suggested, have a concerted campaign to improve your dog's recall around distractions.

Secondly, e-collars have a place. MN is very anti e-collar, but it is possible to use them extremely well without terrifying your dog. You establish behaviours using praise and rewards, and make sure the dog knows what a command means, and that it means the same thing in multiple different places. Only then, IMHO, should you introduce an e-collar. You work out which is the lowest level the dog reacts to (a twitch of an ear or a sideways look will tell you). And you then teach the dog that this is a back up to an audible command, so that the dog learns exactly how to switch the sensation off. You only use a higher level if the dog doesn't respond.

I know a lot of e-collar trained dogs, my own included, who are happy, social and confident. Yes, you can bugger up a dog with an e-collar - but you also can with a boot, or over-use of a crate, or by not giving it the chance to run and explore.

It was a one off incident and you encountered an arsehole. Yes go and do a bit more recall work but don't leash your dog forever for it.

My DH is a police officer. The dog unit temporarily misplaced one of their highly, highly trained scent tracking dogs the other week as it went chasing off after a deer in the middle of a job and wouldn't recall (also a spaniel). It hasn't been sacked for one mistake. It can happen to ANY dog, none of them have 100% recall.

I know a lot of e-collar trained dogs, my own included, who are happy, social and confident.

I just fundamentally disagree with this (and I have before and will continue to). You’ll never build a proper bond with your dog if you have to shock it, or abuse it, into doing what you want.

I know you have HP or similar, but I know plenty that are recall trained without shock collars.

E-collars and aversive methods (including shouting and hitting and kicking and starving) have no place in the lives of people who love their dogs, and that’s my hill I will die on. Might as well just get a stun gun.

Op honestly, I think dog threads on MN cause a lot of anxiety and don’t reflect my experiences irl. In my local park most of our dogs have behaved like an arsehole at some point, when they are usually well behaved. I don’t think this incident means he needs to go back on the lead permanently. Yes he’s shown you his recall isn’t as reliable as you thought, so focus on training in recall when exciting things are happening. But I think all the ‘never let him off again’ type responses are overkill and just breed anxiety in everyone.

Great post 👌

It’s great to see that you’ve taken such a quick and responsible action after a mistake. I genuinely wish more dog owners were like you.

I have offlead dogs come up to mine all the time and sometimes I do explode at the other owner when it’s flagrant disregard for any common sense so I won’t judge him too harshly but I never do that when I see someone genuinely trying to control their dog and apologising which it sounds like you did.

i have a long lead and my dog is very happy on it (but he is a lazy fat floof and not a spaniel) so I’m sure you’ll still have very happy walks.

It’s not ideal but that guy sounds horrible.

My dog has had lots of off lead dogs approach him, I just stand still and try to block them from getting too close to my dog as he’s very iffy about other dogs.

Thanks so much for this it’s really helpful.

Ive been reflecting this evening, and your point about training being an ongoing process rather than an event that is “done” is so true.

when DS arrived, we were so focused on helping the dog adjust to the arrival of the baby, get used to being in safe comfy “dog” zones of the house (she is never ever in the room with the baby without an adult there, and even then very carefully managed). We consulted with a qualified behaviourist to help manage the changes. we did lots of training around not guarding things because that’s something spaniels are quite notorious for and we knew there would be toys everywhere.

We prioritised ensuring that she always got affection and exercise every day, not matter how crazy the early baby days were, because we had seen so many stories of people having to rehome their spaniels when they had kids because they weren’t getting enough attention/stimulation/exercise.

I think in all of that, keeping recall training regular and fresh is an area we have let slip, and i can see how this happened. She does normally come back and she doesn’t normally approach other dogs (prefers sniffing and looking for squirrels), so we were not well prepared for the situation today. I went out with a focus on getting her exercised and wasn’t tuned in enough to the surroundings .

previous posters are right, I shouldn’t have had her off the lead when I had my son with me. It wasn’t thoughtful. Perhaps that does merit being repeatedly called a “fucking idiot”.

I don’t accept that I deserved to have my dog intentionally wound up, kicked, or to be physically intimidated by this man.

plan going forward is:

• walks on the short lead when out with the baby alone, long lead when 1:1 with dog

• book sessions in secure field to recommence recall training (this is where we started as a pup), continue recall around the house and garden

• more effort to go out into more rural quiet, hiking locations for long walks in evenings/weekends - easier now the days are longer.

We lived semi rurally when we got her, which was admittedly a better place for the DDog. We had to move to town because we couldn’t afford to buy out there and I couldn’t afford the commute to work anymore. This has meant less stimulating walks for her Monday-Friday because of long working days. More effort required in this area from us.

thank you again everyone who has taken time to share kindness and helpful advice, very appreciated.

OP, just another tip the trainer at the rescue centre gave us which might help you. It sounds a bit mean at first, but do please bear with me.

Whilst you're doing your regular training session with your dog hide a bit. I mean just step behind a tree whilst your dog is fetching a ball a short distance away. You can peep round the tree a bit to watch and make sure they're safe and ok. Let your dog just very briefly think 'Crikey, where are they?!'. Don't leave them feeling that for more than a moment then call them, step out. give a whole load of praise and a treat.

It does two things. It makes them so delighted you're still there they fly at you for a treat and a load of praise when called. Almost more importantly it teaches them to keep one eye and some focus on you even when they're having loads of fun. We only did it once or twice (because it made us feel like heels) but the the connection lasted a lifetime.

Might not be for you, but it worked for us.

Yes we did this technique when she was younger, and the running away technique described by another poster. Thank you for the reminder.

OP You sound like an excellent dog owner. Sorry you had such a horrible experience. You have taken responsibility and listened to everyone’s advice and your training of your dog to prepare her for your baby sounds great.
The man sounds like an idiot.
Embrace the strategies that you think will help and move forward. As you said, your dog was being playful and if the man had been genuinely bothered, I’m sure he would have tried to get away rather than go at your dog.
I think most people with dogs have had moments that they’d rather forget. Animals have their own minds and ideas, which can be a mixed blessing!
I hope tomorrow is a better day 💐

I obviously try and get away, but getting away from an off lead dog that is hell bent on getting close to you is nigh on impossible.

In fact, in most scenarios it’s been resolved by me or DH grabbing offending dog by the collar and walking back to the owner, but that’s not an option if we’re alone.